About Nihilum Recruitment

[Thomas Jespersen]

I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
Nihilum:
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/

One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

Weird.

[Apoptygma]

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

[Catriona R]

Post by Apoptygma

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Urs Steiner]

Post by Catriona R

Post by Apoptygma

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.

well, yes and no.

Certainly different stuff works for different people, but just imagine a
holy priest making an application.

All the keybindings on his primary bar or his mouse contain smite, mind
blast and his racials of different ranks. Do you take him?

Or even better: when he can't answer the question, he's probably always
mouse-clicking on the different buttons, which is *extremely* efficient
... do you take him?

It won't matter if he's got renew on 5 or 7, or shield on 0 or 2 with
heal on 3.

Just consider it the first part of sorting the extreme idiots out.

Urs

[Catriona R]

Post by Urs Steiner
Or even better: when he can't answer the question, he's probably always
mouse-clicking on the different buttons, which is *extremely* efficient
... do you take him?

I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Bertha]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:11:42 +0000, Catriona R

Post by Catriona R
I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.

Bear in mind that this selection process works for the applicant as well
as for the guild--if a guild is so intolerant and close-minded that they
will reject a capable player just because he does things differently, do
you really want to join them?

-Bertha

[Catriona R]

Post by Bertha
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:11:42 +0000, Catriona R

Post by Catriona R
I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.

Bear in mind that this selection process works for the applicant as well
as for the guild--if a guild is so intolerant and close-minded that they
will reject a capable player just because he does things differently, do
you really want to join them?

I think I don't. I appreciate that keybindings are a fraction more
efficient *for some people*, but they aren't for me; I'm used to clicking
and have become pretty good at it with much practice. I perform no worse
than any other healers I work with (some of which are experienced in Hyjal
and Black Temple), so if anyone did choose to reject me based purely on my
playstyle, their loss frankly. Not that I'd be likely to ever apply to such
a picky guild in the first place; I play to have fun, not as a job.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Babe Bridou]

Post by Catriona R

Post by Bertha
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:11:42 +0000, Catriona R

Post by Catriona R
I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.

Bear in mind that this selection process works for the applicant as well
as for the guild--if a guild is so intolerant and close-minded that they
will reject a capable player just because he does things differently, do
you really want to join them?

I think I don't. I appreciate that keybindings are a fraction more
efficient *for some people*, but they aren't for me; I'm used to clicking
and have become pretty good at it with much practice. I perform no worse
than any other healers I work with (some of which are experienced in Hyjal
and Black Temple), so if anyone did choose to reject me based purely on my
playstyle, their loss frankly. Not that I'd be likely to ever apply to such
a picky guild in the first place; I play to have fun, not as a job.

I'm on the other side of the "keybinding fence", and I totally support
you there. Clicking is hard for me, and that's why I use keybindings:
because I'm not skilled enough to manage my turning and performing
actions at the same time.

I'm so much used to my keybindings on my priest that I no longer even
display the 40 buttons of my main action bar, and it's a royal pain in
the ass whenever I need to use a spell or ability that is remotely
useful but not always keybound, such as drinking water, or popping up
profession tabs. I actually have respect for clickers, because they
can basically do the same.

That said I think displaying the keybinding is a matter of showing
what you can do and what you can't. I for example, with my keybinding
layout, have mild issues strafing right and casting prayer of mending
at the same time, or strafing left and casting shadow word: death at
the same time. I also can't, mechanically again, use hex of weakness
while strafing in the "lower-right" direction.

Such things are good to know - some limitations are critical, for
example if a hunter can't use arcane & concussive shot while mouse-
turning, then kiting suddenly becomes more difficult.

[steve.kaye]

Post by Babe Bridou
Such things are good to know - some limitations are critical, for
example if a hunter can't use arcane & concussive shot while mouse-
turning, then kiting suddenly becomes more difficult.

I use a Nostromo n52 and I used to use my thumb on the D-pad to move
and use my thumb on the thumb button to shift the other 14 keys. This
meant that there were quite a few functions that I couldn't access
whilst moving unless I managed to grow another thumb.

I've reworked it now and it is comparable to a normal keyboard usind
WASD to move and the 10 keys around those to map to the action bar.
This gives me a similar problem to you - its not easy to access the
buttons on the right side of the n52 whilst strafing right or the left
side whilst strafing left.

I never click action bar buttons in combat - I only click on Grid or
press the n52 keys.

steve.kaye

[chocolatemalt]

In article

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Babe Bridou
Such things are good to know - some limitations are critical, for
example if a hunter can't use arcane & concussive shot while mouse-
turning, then kiting suddenly becomes more difficult.

I use a Nostromo n52 and I used to use my thumb on the D-pad to move
and use my thumb on the thumb button to shift the other 14 keys. This
meant that there were quite a few functions that I couldn't access
whilst moving unless I managed to grow another thumb.
I've reworked it now and it is comparable to a normal keyboard usind
WASD to move and the 10 keys around those to map to the action bar.
This gives me a similar problem to you - its not easy to access the
buttons on the right side of the n52 whilst strafing right or the left
side whilst strafing left.
I never click action bar buttons in combat - I only click on Grid or
press the n52 keys.
steve.kaye

I never understood the default FPS-game key layout of using WASD to move
-- probably invented by a two-finger typist, but it seems like something
that would've been fixed at some point. For every such game I've played
I've changed movement to ESDF. It keeps my left hand where it's
supposed to be, no shifting around for typing chat messages, most
keyboards have some nice bump or ridge on the F key for subconscious
position verification, and it opens up four more keys for the pinky for
a huge advantage on hotkey count. Are there a lot of other people here
that still stick with the default WASD set-up?

Kinda reminds me, in the UNIX world, of the silly hjkl movement keys for
vi editors (and all those rogue/moria/nethack games) that also require
constant hand-shifting between typing and movement, but at least vi
isn't a place where you'll get fragged due to a moment's hesitation. :)

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by chocolatemalt
I never understood the default FPS-game key layout of using WASD to move
-- probably invented by a two-finger typist, but it seems like something
that would've been fixed at some point. For every such game I've played
I've changed movement to ESDF. It keeps my left hand where it's
supposed to be, no shifting around for typing chat messages, most
keyboards have some nice bump or ridge on the F key for subconscious
position verification, and it opens up four more keys for the pinky for
a huge advantage on hotkey count. Are there a lot of other people here
that still stick with the default WASD set-up?

You know, I've never even considered rebinding to ESDF, but thinking
of it, it does indeed sound like that would be a much more effective
layout. I must try this tonight :).

Mike

[Darin Johnson]

Post by m***@gmail.com
You know, I've never even considered rebinding to ESDF, but thinking
of it, it does indeed sound like that would be a much more effective
layout.

True. It leaves room for characters to the left of the
hand for extra actions. It does leave the control key
a little farther away (I remap ctrl to capslock by default
anyway on al l new computers).

WASD became common ages ago when "mouse look" FPS games
started becoming popular. It was cumbersome to have the
right hand on the mouse and the left hand on the numberpad.

I remember the HJKL games. It made sense in the old days
since some computers actually had arrows on those keys,
and the vi editor used them, so it made sense for rogue
and hack to follow along with what the majority of the
players were used to. I had played rogue for ages before
I first saw a keyboard that had dedicated arrow keys
(separate from the numpad that is).

--
Darin Johnson

[Candido]

Post by Darin Johnson
I remember the HJKL games.

Who knows the QAOP layout? :D

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was ***@gmail.com (Candido) that wrote something
like...

Post by Candido

Post by Darin Johnson
I remember the HJKL games.

Who knows the QAOP layout? :D

IJKM anyone? Or was it okl,?

Ashen Shugar

[Babe Bridou]

Post by Ashen Shugar
like...

Post by Candido

Post by Darin Johnson
I remember the HJKL games.

Who knows the QAOP layout? :D

IJKM anyone? Or was it okl,?

Ready
Get set

Go!
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][[]][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][[][][][][][][][][

damn how many keyboards did I ruin on Decathlon.

[Candido]

Post by Babe Bridou
damn how many keyboards did I ruin on Decathlon.

:-)

[Nick Vargish]

Post by Babe Bridou
damn how many keyboards did I ruin on Decathlon.

I played it on an Apple ][, those things had very durable keyboards.

Nick

[Babe Bridou]

Post by Candido

Post by Darin Johnson
I remember the HJKL games.

Who knows the QAOP layout? :D
--
Candido

Hehe, I remember playing Double Dragon, QBert and Zaxxon with that
setup.

[Rob Wynne]

Post by Darin Johnson
I remember the HJKL games. It made sense in the old days
since some computers actually had arrows on those keys,
and the vi editor used them, so it made sense for rogue
and hack to follow along with what the majority of the
players were used to. I had played rogue for ages before
I first saw a keyboard that had dedicated arrow keys
(separate from the numpad that is).

Amusingly, my wife has recently been on an Angband kick, and our
computers are right next to each other. I sometimes joke that we have
the endpoints of the spectrum of computer RPGs on display in our
computer room. :)

[Babe Bridou]

Post by chocolatemalt
In article

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Babe Bridou
Such things are good to know - some limitations are critical, for
example if a hunter can't use arcane & concussive shot while mouse-
turning, then kiting suddenly becomes more difficult.

I use a Nostromo n52 and I used to use my thumb on the D-pad to move
and use my thumb on the thumb button to shift the other 14 keys. This
meant that there were quite a few functions that I couldn't access
whilst moving unless I managed to grow another thumb.
I've reworked it now and it is comparable to a normal keyboard usind
WASD to move and the 10 keys around those to map to the action bar.
This gives me a similar problem to you - its not easy to access the
buttons on the right side of the n52 whilst strafing right or the left
side whilst strafing left.
I never click action bar buttons in combat - I only click on Grid or
press the n52 keys.
steve.kaye

I never understood the default FPS-game key layout of using WASD to move
-- probably invented by a two-finger typist, but it seems like something
that would've been fixed at some point. For every such game I've played
I've changed movement to ESDF. It keeps my left hand where it's
supposed to be, no shifting around for typing chat messages, most
keyboards have some nice bump or ridge on the F key for subconscious
position verification, and it opens up four more keys for the pinky for
a huge advantage on hotkey count. Are there a lot of other people here
that still stick with the default WASD set-up?

It's funny that you ask. I do, mostly because of my incapacity to do a
shift+s, using my ring finger for pressing the "s" key. I simply can't
do that. It's morphologic, some even argue it's a genetic incapacity
to maintain comfortably such a distance between the two exterior
fingers.

So on a FPS, I wouldn't be able to use modifiers while strafing left.
Similarly, on a wsad setup, you typically can't hit the windows key by
accident. On a esdf, it happens all the time.

Things like that, I guess, make me stick with the wsad setup.

[chocolatemalt]

In article

Post by Babe Bridou

Post by chocolatemalt
I never understood the default FPS-game key layout of using WASD to move
-- probably invented by a two-finger typist, but it seems like something
that would've been fixed at some point. For every such game I've played
I've changed movement to ESDF. It keeps my left hand where it's
supposed to be, no shifting around for typing chat messages, most
keyboards have some nice bump or ridge on the F key for subconscious
position verification, and it opens up four more keys for the pinky for
a huge advantage on hotkey count. Are there a lot of other people here
that still stick with the default WASD set-up?

It's funny that you ask. I do, mostly because of my incapacity to do a
shift+s, using my ring finger for pressing the "s" key. I simply can't
do that. It's morphologic, some even argue it's a genetic incapacity
to maintain comfortably such a distance between the two exterior
fingers.
So on a FPS, I wouldn't be able to use modifiers while strafing left.
Similarly, on a wsad setup, you typically can't hit the windows key by
accident. On a esdf, it happens all the time.
Things like that, I guess, make me stick with the wsad setup.

Ah ha, that seems reasonable.

Somehow I almost never hit the Windows key, rare enough that I haven't
dug up that registry hack to disable it on my last few OS re-installs.
But I do fat-finger the ALT and Z keys simultaneously a few times a
week, which of course makes the HUD vanish in a poof and requires quick
recovery from panic to undo. Very disruptive if I'm main-tanking
something important. :)

[Catriona R]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:47:13 -0800 (PST), Babe Bridou

Post by Babe Bridou
Such things are good to know - some limitations are critical, for
example if a hunter can't use arcane & concussive shot while mouse-
turning, then kiting suddenly becomes more difficult.

True, I have to admit I can't kite on my hunter at all :-) But then I can't
get used to mouse turning anyway, using WASD for movement comes naturally
to me, as does clicking the buttons, no matter how I try I just can't
switch, so it's much better *for me* to stick with what I do.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[chocolatemalt]

Post by Catriona R
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:47:13 -0800 (PST), Babe Bridou

Post by Babe Bridou
Such things are good to know - some limitations are critical, for
example if a hunter can't use arcane & concussive shot while mouse-
turning, then kiting suddenly becomes more difficult.

True, I have to admit I can't kite on my hunter at all :-) But then I can't
get used to mouse turning anyway, using WASD for movement comes naturally
to me, as does clicking the buttons, no matter how I try I just can't
switch, so it's much better *for me* to stick with what I do.

It definitely takes a lot of practice to make this paradigm shift. I
had to suck it up and learn back in the Medal of Honor online fragfest
days because I was getting murdered. It was clear that the best players
were insta-turning and strafing simultaneously while firing any weapon,
and I could either figure out those same tricks or be meat. When I took
those newly-acquired skills to my workplace fragfests ("Computer
Assisted Team Building Exercise") I completely dominated the workmates
for months while they caught up -- I dodged their rockets while lobbing
my own in brief appearances in some doorway, and they all made such nice
targets standing still while trying to shoot. My manager was one of
those targets so I'm not exactly sure my dominance helped my career. :)

Granted, WoW isn't the same game but it's still a First Person Shooter
at heart and gives a huge (mostly PvP) advantage to people that can do
that insta-turning, strafing, multi-skill dance all at the same time.

[Babe Bridou]

Post by chocolatemalt
Granted, WoW isn't the same game but it's still a First Person Shooter
at heart and gives a huge (mostly PvP) advantage to people that can do
that insta-turning, strafing, multi-skill dance all at the same time.

The pvp advantage is anecdotic. The game action is split in discrete
increments of 1.5seconds (1second for rogues), with turning being the
only "continuous" action you can take - but even then there is no such
thing as aiming, because well, the "Forward" side is 180° wide :P

Indeed, on hectic hand to hand action, a mouse-turning dood can
probably manage a soft-dodge, a soft-counterspell or a soft-backstab
every other duel over the other guy, but really it's a matter of hand-
eye coordination and how you dedicate your actions.

It's easier for me to mess up though. I can't remember how many times
I've hit evasion instead of mount, vanish instead of ghostly strike,
psychic scream instead of power word: shield or heck, berzerker stance
instead of defensive stance.

[chocolatemalt]

In article

Post by Babe Bridou

Post by chocolatemalt
Granted, WoW isn't the same game but it's still a First Person Shooter
at heart and gives a huge (mostly PvP) advantage to people that can do
that insta-turning, strafing, multi-skill dance all at the same time.

The pvp advantage is anecdotic. The game action is split in discrete
increments of 1.5seconds (1second for rogues), with turning being the
only "continuous" action you can take - but even then there is no such
thing as aiming, because well, the "Forward" side is 180° wide :P
Indeed, on hectic hand to hand action, a mouse-turning dood can
probably manage a soft-dodge, a soft-counterspell or a soft-backstab
every other duel over the other guy, but really it's a matter of hand-
eye coordination and how you dedicate your actions.

I think it's a bigger advantage than that due to the unfortunate way the
client and server have to agree on positional and time circumstances to
allow you to do anything. If your client thinks you aren't facing the
enemy, it rejects your action... but if it does think you're facing him
and in range, but then the server does not, you're SOL again. This game
design winds up rewarding the strafe-and-jump-around pvp-ers that manage
to avoid half of the opposing hits not only due to player confusion but
also client/server rejection of action attempts.

This is one of the reasons I love my fire mage in AV. I stand back and
lob nukes, let the client/server arguments be damned.

Post by Babe Bridou
It's easier for me to mess up though. I can't remember how many times
I've hit evasion instead of mount, vanish instead of ghostly strike,
psychic scream instead of power word: shield or heck, berzerker stance
instead of defensive stance.

I'm convinced my switching from Battle Stance to Berzerker Stance at the
start of a tanking shift has led to many a wipe due to sudden 50%
increased damage taken. Not that I fessed up about it or anything.
"Heals noobs!"

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was chocolatemalt <***@dim.com.removethis> that
wrote something like...

Post by chocolatemalt

Post by Babe Bridou

Post by chocolatemalt
Granted, WoW isn't the same game but it's still a First Person Shooter
at heart and gives a huge (mostly PvP) advantage to people that can do
that insta-turning, strafing, multi-skill dance all at the same time.

The pvp advantage is anecdotic. The game action is split in discrete
increments of 1.5seconds (1second for rogues), with turning being the
only "continuous" action you can take - but even then there is no such
thing as aiming, because well, the "Forward" side is 180? wide :P
Indeed, on hectic hand to hand action, a mouse-turning dood can
probably manage a soft-dodge, a soft-counterspell or a soft-backstab
every other duel over the other guy, but really it's a matter of hand-
eye coordination and how you dedicate your actions.

I think it's a bigger advantage than that due to the unfortunate way the
client and server have to agree on positional and time circumstances to
allow you to do anything. If your client thinks you aren't facing the
enemy, it rejects your action... but if it does think you're facing him
and in range, but then the server does not, you're SOL again. This game
design winds up rewarding the strafe-and-jump-around pvp-ers that manage
to avoid half of the opposing hits not only due to player confusion but
also client/server rejection of action attempts.

Which is one reason I've never seriously tried to get into pvp. With
a minimum half second lag between me and the server, my target could
be in front of me, but by the time my "shoot" gets to the server,
they're behind me. It's also possibly that at the time I see them in
front of me, they're already halfway to being behind me.

Post by chocolatemalt
This is one of the reasons I love my fire mage in AV. I stand back and
lob nukes, let the client/server arguments be damned.

In my case I'd be 1 second into casting the spell when I get told that
actually, the target is out of range. : /

Ashen Shugar

[Matt McLeod]

Post by Ashen Shugar
wrote something like...

Post by chocolatemalt
This is one of the reasons I love my fire mage in AV. I stand back and
lob nukes, let the client/server arguments be damned.

In my case I'd be 1 second into casting the spell when I get told that
actually, the target is out of range. : /

I found that didn't happen to my mage too often (also in Australia,
same latency issues) but it does make playing any class that involves
melee or short range too frustrating to bother.

Gnome scorch-mage is fun, hide in the bushes and it'll take the enemy
a while to figure out where you are. Same is presumably true if you
use arcane blast too.

[Marco Dieckhoff]

Post by Catriona R

Post by Bertha
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:11:42 +0000, Catriona R

Post by Catriona R
I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.

Bear in mind that this selection process works for the applicant as well
as for the guild--if a guild is so intolerant and close-minded that they
will reject a capable player just because he does things differently, do
you really want to join them?

I think I don't. I appreciate that keybindings are a fraction more
efficient *for some people*, but they aren't for me; I'm used to clicking
and have become pretty good at it with much practice. I perform no worse
than any other healers I work with (some of which are experienced in Hyjal
and Black Temple), so if anyone did choose to reject me based purely on my
playstyle, their loss frankly. Not that I'd be likely to ever apply to such
a picky guild in the first place;
I play to have fun, not as a job.

THAT is the point.

Nihilum may have fun, but it's not their priority anymore.
They see the "game" as a serious thing.

They have fun in world first kills, knowing that it'll take great
effort to get there. And knowing that there is not much fun on the
way to it.

When there are new encounters to be learned, everyone has to give 110%.

It's about split seconds as someone already noted.



I think you can split the wow raiders into 3 or 4 fractions:

- Casuals, raiding 1-2 evenings per week, cleared Karazhan and are
making their way to Gruul and SSC.

- Steadies, rading 2-3 evenings per week, cleared SSC and TK

- Experienced, rading 4-5 evenings per week, BT and Hyjal.
Maybe got a server first kill or clear.

- Exalted, aiming for world first kills and clears.



If you really want to upgrade to exalted, you have to keep in mind
that this will cost you much time, that you have to see more than
just a game in wow. Kind of lifestyle.

Sounds crazy? Maybe poor, miserable, pathetic?
Yes, sure. But nevertheless many people admire Nihilum players for
their skill. Me too.


btw, I'm a "casual" according to my breakdown above.

[l***@red-dwarf.lan]

Post by Marco Dieckhoff
- Exalted,

exalted by/with whom exactly?

[Darin Johnson]

Post by Marco Dieckhoff
Sounds crazy? Maybe poor, miserable, pathetic?
Yes, sure. But nevertheless many people admire Nihilum players for
their skill. Me too.

This is quite similar to saying "you have to admire those people
who've memorized the dialogue of all episodes of Macross for
their skill." It is an impressive accomplishment, but there are
lots of impressive accomplishments that don't necessarily
earn broad admiration.

Nihilum sort of serves the role of being an excuse to many
players. As in "at least I'm not as hopelessly addicted as
some people." Everyone is a casual player when placed
in comparison.

--
Darin Johnson

[Candido]

Post by Bertha
Bear in mind that this selection process works for the applicant as well
as for the guild--if a guild is so intolerant and close-minded that they
will reject a capable player just because he does things differently, do
you really want to join them?

We are taking about the best guild on this game. Maybe they are so good
*even* because they look at these very small things. Actually they say
to take a look on the "full story" about the key bindings, so maybe
should a good idea to do that.

[Darin Johnson]

Post by Candido
We are taking about the best guild on this game.

For certain definitions of "best".

[Candido]

Post by Darin Johnson

Post by Candido
We are taking about the best guild on this game.

For certain definitions of "best".

"Best" enough to ask for the keybindings, IMHO. Maybe just to keep away
people who doesnt care much enough to give that kind of information. :P

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by Catriona R

Post by Urs Steiner
Or even better: when he can't answer the question, he's probably always
mouse-clicking on the different buttons, which is *extremely* efficient
... do you take him?

I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.

Same. I'm a clicker for MOST things (I have counterspell hot keyed on
my mage, and Kill command hotkeyed on my hunters, but that's it). The
truth of it is, almost all spell casts have this little delay put in
called the Global Cooldown. In 1.5 seconds I can have my mouse button
pretty much anywhere I want it on screen (actually less, as I'm always
waiting on the GCD before casting my next action). For me, keybinding
serves little purpose. My mage is the 2nd best DPS'er in our guild,
and my druid does fine healing. My hunter sucks, but that's because
he's in half greens and I rarely play him :P.

Mike

[Catriona R]

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Catriona R

Post by Urs Steiner
Or even better: when he can't answer the question, he's probably always
mouse-clicking on the different buttons, which is *extremely* efficient
... do you take him?

I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.

Same. I'm a clicker for MOST things (I have counterspell hot keyed on
my mage, and Kill command hotkeyed on my hunters, but that's it). The
truth of it is, almost all spell casts have this little delay put in
called the Global Cooldown. In 1.5 seconds I can have my mouse button
pretty much anywhere I want it on screen (actually less, as I'm always
waiting on the GCD before casting my next action). For me, keybinding
serves little purpose. My mage is the 2nd best DPS'er in our guild,
and my druid does fine healing. My hunter sucks, but that's because
he's in half greens and I rarely play him :P.

On my dps characters I use the spells on 1-4 with keys, for healing I click
all the way, as I've always been used to having the heal buttons in a
cluster at the right-hand side of the button bar, which isn't a convenient
place to reach with the keys (usually have smite etc on 1-4 for soloing)
Generally i end up clicking a lot even on what I have keyed though,
especially on my warlock where it's dot dot dot... rogue I use keys for
sinister strike spam, simply because I was getting really sore fingers from
using the mouse for it!
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was "***@gmail.com" <***@gmail.com> that wrote
something like...

Post by m***@gmail.com

Post by Catriona R

Post by Urs Steiner
Or even better: when he can't answer the question, he's probably always
mouse-clicking on the different buttons, which is *extremely* efficient
... do you take him?

I use the mouse to click and I perform fine compared to other healers. Do
you reject someone out of hand just because they use an alternative method?
I am no worse a healer than anyone else.

Same. I'm a clicker for MOST things (I have counterspell hot keyed on
my mage, and Kill command hotkeyed on my hunters, but that's it). The
truth of it is, almost all spell casts have this little delay put in
called the Global Cooldown. In 1.5 seconds I can have my mouse button
pretty much anywhere I want it on screen (actually less, as I'm always
waiting on the GCD before casting my next action). For me, keybinding
serves little purpose. My mage is the 2nd best DPS'er in our guild,
and my druid does fine healing. My hunter sucks, but that's because
he's in half greens and I rarely play him :P.
Mike

Well, some spells/abilities don't actually share the global cooldown
or something. I believe a mages counterspell is one of them. A
pally's judgement is another. A warriors stance change is the same.
You mentioned hotkeying counterspell and kill command, and I'm
guessing this is why. So you can click on a spell then instantly hit
the hotkey for those abilities without having to wait while you
position the mouse.

Ashen Shugar

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was Catriona R <***@totalise.co.uk> that wrote
something like...

Post by Catriona R

Post by Apoptygma

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.

Working is different to efficient though. For a guild looking to push
things to the edge, split seconds are going to matter as they're
wanting to down bosses as soon as possible without having to take too
much time farming lesser raids to gear up.
That said, just sending them my key bindings wouldn't help all that
much as my keyboard has a section on it's left where a pile of keys
are doubled up in an arrangement supposedly good for playing FPSers.
The K key is next to the 0 which is next to the 1. I can get to the
+,< and > keys just as quickly as the 1,2,3. Then there are things
like Clique. My shadow priest doesn't have silence linked to any key
as I cast it by middle mouse button clicking on the target. Similar
deal with my mage. My polymorph key is *way* over on the right side
toobar, far from any key bindings because I use shift left click with
clique to cast it.
Then of course there's moving skills around on toolbars depending on
the situation. For chain shackling one of Moroes adds I'd put a macro
to shackle my focus close to hand for that fight, but then move it out
of the way so I've got somewhere to hotkey the bombs for the daily
bombing quests.
Heh, and if you used a DVORAK keyboard you'd probably better mention
that along with the keybindings. ; )

Still, I can see their point. If a pally didn't have their judgement
thingy hotkeyed and instead had it off of a side toolbar and had to
click on it with their mouse, I myself might decide it wasn't worth my
time to give them an interview in person so to speak.

Ashen Shugar

[Tokay Pino Gris]

Post by Ashen Shugar
something like...

Post by Catriona R

Post by Apoptygma

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.

Working is different to efficient though. For a guild looking to push
things to the edge, split seconds are going to matter as they're
wanting to down bosses as soon as possible without having to take too
much time farming lesser raids to gear up.
That said, just sending them my key bindings wouldn't help all that
much as my keyboard has a section on it's left where a pile of keys
are doubled up in an arrangement supposedly good for playing FPSers.
The K key is next to the 0 which is next to the 1. I can get to the
+,< and > keys just as quickly as the 1,2,3. Then there are things
like Clique. My shadow priest doesn't have silence linked to any key
as I cast it by middle mouse button clicking on the target. Similar
deal with my mage. My polymorph key is *way* over on the right side
toobar, far from any key bindings because I use shift left click with
clique to cast it.
Then of course there's moving skills around on toolbars depending on
the situation. For chain shackling one of Moroes adds I'd put a macro
to shackle my focus close to hand for that fight, but then move it out
of the way so I've got somewhere to hotkey the bombs for the daily
bombing quests.
Heh, and if you used a DVORAK keyboard you'd probably better mention
that along with the keybindings. ; )
Still, I can see their point. If a pally didn't have their judgement
thingy hotkeyed and instead had it off of a side toolbar and had to
click on it with their mouse, I myself might decide it wasn't worth my
time to give them an interview in person so to speak.

Well. This is not a job application, so to speak. You want enthusiastic
players with wit and imagination, that are good in what they do...

You might be the guildmaster of the most elite guild there is.

Does that mean anything? Nope, it doesn't.

Give you a hint...

It is a GAME

Oh, never mind. You'll never have to deal with me. You want to be such
an "elite", go on! But don't count on any "respect".


Tokay


Tokay

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was Tokay Pino Gris <***@gmx.net> that wrote
something like...

Post by Tokay Pino Gris

Post by Ashen Shugar
something like...

Post by Catriona R

Post by Apoptygma

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.

Working is different to efficient though. For a guild looking to push
things to the edge, split seconds are going to matter as they're
wanting to down bosses as soon as possible without having to take too
much time farming lesser raids to gear up.
That said, just sending them my key bindings wouldn't help all that
much as my keyboard has a section on it's left where a pile of keys
are doubled up in an arrangement supposedly good for playing FPSers.
The K key is next to the 0 which is next to the 1. I can get to the
+,< and > keys just as quickly as the 1,2,3. Then there are things
like Clique. My shadow priest doesn't have silence linked to any key
as I cast it by middle mouse button clicking on the target. Similar
deal with my mage. My polymorph key is *way* over on the right side
toobar, far from any key bindings because I use shift left click with
clique to cast it.
Then of course there's moving skills around on toolbars depending on
the situation. For chain shackling one of Moroes adds I'd put a macro
to shackle my focus close to hand for that fight, but then move it out
of the way so I've got somewhere to hotkey the bombs for the daily
bombing quests.
Heh, and if you used a DVORAK keyboard you'd probably better mention
that along with the keybindings. ; )
Still, I can see their point. If a pally didn't have their judgement
thingy hotkeyed and instead had it off of a side toolbar and had to
click on it with their mouse, I myself might decide it wasn't worth my
time to give them an interview in person so to speak.

Well. This is not a job application, so to speak. You want enthusiastic
players with wit and imagination, that are good in what they do...
You might be the guildmaster of the most elite guild there is.
Does that mean anything? Nope, it doesn't.
Give you a hint...
It is a GAME
Oh, never mind. You'll never have to deal with me. You want to be such
an "elite", go on! But don't count on any "respect".
Tokay
Tokay

*shrug* They have a guild that I'm guessing lots of kiddies would
love to join. If they're expecting to get dozens and dozens of
applications, they're not going to want to spend 2 or 3 hours on each
application testing the person to see if they really are up to playing
in the big leagues. If, as peoples comments on them has suggested to
me, they're mostly interested in getting to the highest level raid
content as quickly as they can, then no, they don't want enthusiastic
players with wit and imagination, or at least, don't care if players
have them or not. They want players that are good, or even great at
what they do, and are dedicated to being the best they can be. They
may miss out on a few gems by first sifting applications by key
bindings, but they probably save a lot of time too by weeding out
people that would just hold them back when they're trying to break
into new content.

In any case, we don't even know what sort of weighting they give to
key bindings when they're considering an application.
Ashen Shugar

[Apoptygma]

Post by Ashen Shugar
something like...

Post by Tokay Pino Gris

Post by Ashen Shugar
something like...

Post by Catriona R

Post by Apoptygma

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.

Working is different to efficient though. For a guild looking to push
things to the edge, split seconds are going to matter as they're
wanting to down bosses as soon as possible without having to take too
much time farming lesser raids to gear up.
That said, just sending them my key bindings wouldn't help all that
much as my keyboard has a section on it's left where a pile of keys
are doubled up in an arrangement supposedly good for playing FPSers.
The K key is next to the 0 which is next to the 1. I can get to the
+,< and > keys just as quickly as the 1,2,3. Then there are things
like Clique. My shadow priest doesn't have silence linked to any key
as I cast it by middle mouse button clicking on the target. Similar
deal with my mage. My polymorph key is *way* over on the right side
toobar, far from any key bindings because I use shift left click with
clique to cast it.
Then of course there's moving skills around on toolbars depending on
the situation. For chain shackling one of Moroes adds I'd put a macro
to shackle my focus close to hand for that fight, but then move it out
of the way so I've got somewhere to hotkey the bombs for the daily
bombing quests.
Heh, and if you used a DVORAK keyboard you'd probably better mention
that along with the keybindings. ; )
Still, I can see their point. If a pally didn't have their judgement
thingy hotkeyed and instead had it off of a side toolbar and had to
click on it with their mouse, I myself might decide it wasn't worth my
time to give them an interview in person so to speak.

Well. This is not a job application, so to speak. You want enthusiastic
players with wit and imagination, that are good in what they do...
You might be the guildmaster of the most elite guild there is.
Does that mean anything? Nope, it doesn't.
Give you a hint...
It is a GAME
Oh, never mind. You'll never have to deal with me. You want to be such
an "elite", go on! But don't count on any "respect".
Tokay
Tokay

*shrug* They have a guild that I'm guessing lots of kiddies would
love to join. If they're expecting to get dozens and dozens of
applications, they're not going to want to spend 2 or 3 hours on each
application testing the person to see if they really are up to playing
in the big leagues. If, as peoples comments on them has suggested to
me, they're mostly interested in getting to the highest level raid
content as quickly as they can, then no, they don't want enthusiastic
players with wit and imagination, or at least, don't care if players
have them or not. They want players that are good, or even great at
what they do, and are dedicated to being the best they can be. They
may miss out on a few gems by first sifting applications by key
bindings, but they probably save a lot of time too by weeding out
people that would just hold them back when they're trying to break
into new content.
In any case, we don't even know what sort of weighting they give to
key bindings when they're considering an application.
Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

I figured this thread would slowly evolve into a hardcore vs casual
debate given enough time. The thing is that you are talking about
*the* wow guild, they would get hundreds of applications a week, i'm
suprised they don't ask for pc specs, ping time and isp, what your
working hours are, how long you have played wow, /played time on all
characters in total. And what you eat for breakfast. They don't *need*
new players so why try and get some? Our guild just closed off open
invites because we have enough of every class but heal-spec hybrids.
And more locks would just be bench-warmers.

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Apoptygma
I figured this thread would slowly evolve into a hardcore vs casual
debate given enough time. The thing is that you are talking about
*the* wow guild, they would get hundreds of applications a week, i'm

Who cares? *

[Candido]

Post by Tokay Pino Gris
It is a GAME

Football is a game too, but there are players who are payed billions to
play.
Don't be surprised if there is people playing a game as job. :)

[RogerM]

Post by Catriona R
But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.

Amen to that. It's a ridiculous standard to hold people to in a GAME.

[Freddie Freeloader]

Post by RogerM

Post by Catriona R
But different stuff works for different people, and if anyone tried to tell
me how to arrange my skills I'd tell them it's none of their business,
frankly. If I want help, I'll ask for it, otherwise I can do my job fine.

Amen to that. It's a ridiculous standard to hold people to in a GAME.

Asking that you include your key bindings when submitting an
application does not necessarily mean that they want to force you to
use a certain set of bindings. In any case, unless you're intending
to apply to nihilum it's a moot point.

[Tokay Pino Gris]

Post by Apoptygma

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

It's not that strange really. They are one of the world's top guilds.
I'm main tank and an officer in what i'd call a pretty casual guild,
just cleared kara and got one kill in zul'aman. I'm the warrior class
leader and i'd sure ask new tanks how they have their toolbar set out.
Hell most of them have asked me before i got around to it. Being sure
you have the right abilities reachable is important. A tank with
intervene on a mouse button is a lot safer than one who has to switch
to a second action bar and click the skill to fire it. It's also
critical to have heroic strike in a place where you can spam it at the
*same* time as devastate. If one's on "p" and the other is "q" i'd
think "noob tank" straight away and if i was choosing new members for
the worlds most elite guild this would be a good reason to choose
applicant "B"

Oh boy. I met some pretty fast players that had a very funny layout....
You remember Descent? One of the best players didn't use a joystick,
didn't use a mouse.... Keyboard, all the way. Don't ask me how, but he
was deadly.

Never mind.

You want such an exclusive club, you can keep it. You can bet you will
never get an application by me.


Tokay

[steve.kaye]

Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Oh boy. I met some pretty fast players that had a very funny layout....
You remember Descent? One of the best players didn't use a joystick,
didn't use a mouse.... Keyboard, all the way. Don't ask me how, but he
was deadly.

I liked multi-player Descent - that was a great game. The single
player was a bit dull IMO. I played it at work, after hours, with
other people at work and we all played with just the keyboard as we
didn't have joysticks on our work PCs.

Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Never mind.
You want such an exclusive club, you can keep it. You can bet you will
never get an application by me.

And they probably don't want you. They certainly don't want me :)

steve.kaye

[Tokay Pino Gris]

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Oh boy. I met some pretty fast players that had a very funny layout....
You remember Descent? One of the best players didn't use a joystick,
didn't use a mouse.... Keyboard, all the way. Don't ask me how, but he
was deadly.

I liked multi-player Descent - that was a great game. The single
player was a bit dull IMO. I played it at work, after hours, with
other people at work and we all played with just the keyboard as we
didn't have joysticks on our work PCs.

Hehe. Yeah, sure. single player was boring... This were the times before
we all had Internet access. Well, I didn't, at least.

So we packed our computers and the good old huge monitors and all the
stuff.... and linked them together with the prehistoric coax-Lan... And
had IMMENSE fun...

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Never mind.
You want such an exclusive club, you can keep it. You can bet you will
never get an application by me.

And they probably don't want you. They certainly don't want me :)

I'd say you got lucky.

Listen, if you play long enough (as you sure all know) after a while,
you play without thinking. Your hands move, your fingers hit buttons...
in a dark room, no light to even SEE the keyboard... You don't go "I'd
use a "Sunder Armor" now.... which button was that... ah, yes... "2"..."
NO! You Sunder Armor. Period. You don't even think anymore.

And THATS whats important. IF they would really want fast players...
they should look for those. Test them. Try them. No matter how crazy the
layout... Maybe they are fast with it....

But hey! I'd rather play with people that have FUN. Hehe.. for example,
I'd rather take someone with me that says "Heroic? Sorry. I HATE
grinding.. So, no key yet"
(no longer true... But was true for me. The only key I had prior to 2.3
was the Caverns of Time.... And that one is soooo easy to get.)

Again, I'd like to have fun. THAT'S why I am playing. It IS fun to know
what you are doing, to actually be successful... But not to the point
where it gets obsessive.


Tokay

[Lawrence Payne]

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!
Weird.

How did y find out about this guild?

Mine is currently dessolving and I 'm looking for a new one. I'm looking
for a raid guild that farms Tier 5 and Tier 6 gear, but I'm unsure as to how
to preceed. Asking around has gotten me nowhere.

Did y research this guild? If so, how? what tools did y use? And finally
what server are they on?
--
My personal web site is still under construction. Until then you can read my
fanfiction at http://www.fanfiction.net/u/558957/ and
http://www.tthfanfic.com/authors.php?no=2755



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Catriona R]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:23:42 -0500, "Lawrence Payne"

Post by Lawrence Payne
How did y find out about this guild?
Mine is currently dessolving and I 'm looking for a new one. I'm looking
for a raid guild that farms Tier 5 and Tier 6 gear, but I'm unsure as to how
to preceed. Asking around has gotten me nowhere.
Did y research this guild? If so, how? what tools did y use? And finally
what server are they on?

They're kind of the world first kills guild for everything lately, pretty
easy to hear out about them. EU-Magtheridon is the server I believe.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[l***@red-dwarf.lan]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:23:42 -0500, "Lawrence Payne"

Post by Lawrence Payne
How did y find out about this guild?
Mine is currently dessolving and I 'm looking for a new one. I'm looking
for a raid guild that farms Tier 5 and Tier 6 gear, but I'm unsure as to how
to preceed. Asking around has gotten me nowhere.
Did y research this guild? If so, how? what tools did y use? And finally
what server are they on?

i can tell you now they wouldn't want you... if you're too lazy to
actually type the "ou" of "you", you're probably too lazy to press a
certain key at a certain time at a boss encounter.

[Freddie Freeloader]

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then?

I think that their definition of "playing fine" may differ from that
of the typical player. In any case they're not saying that they'll enforce a
particular set of key-bindings on you if you join, they're just asking
what bindings you currently use.

Perhaps looking at your key-bindings is a quick and simple way of
getting a feel for how you play the game and how well your style will
fit in with their guild.

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I don't want anybody who feels they know better how I should
configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

Granted, but do you think it's possible that someone might indeed know
better? If someone could have a look at your key-bindings and suggest some
changes that might change the way you play for the better, and those
changes might increase your enjoyment of the game, how would you react
to that? Would you dismiss their suggestions out of hand, or would you
give the changes a go to see if they worked for you?

[Kimbelyn]

Post by Freddie Freeloader
Granted, but do you think it's possible that someone might indeed know
better? If someone could have a look at your key-bindings and suggest some
changes that might change the way you play for the better, and those
changes might increase your enjoyment of the game, how would you react
to that? Would you dismiss their suggestions out of hand, or would you
give the changes a go to see if they worked for you?

suggestions on how to be a better player is always welcome. however, i
dont think this is one of them. people setup their action bars/keys in a
way thats comfortable for them. it doesnt matter if a suggestion is
really better or not if you still have to spend days getting used to it
because your brain is still associating key X as doing this, or icon Y
being here. changing only insures that now that member *is* messing up
as they're not able to get to the skills in the same was as previously,
thus slowing them down and causing issues for all involved.

im with catriona on this one. this is just absurd and pointless. i know
exactly where my abilities are, and i use a combination of keypresses
for my most used/most critical abilities and mouse clicks for lesser
used ones. in fact, my three healer classes have nearly identical action
bar setups based on ability type as far as heals/hots and
dispel/cleanse/decurse. they have been this way for 3 years and being
told i have to change it will just earn you a quick 'die in a fire' tell.

i think there are much more important questions to be asked, as stated
above. pc specs to insure you have decent fps, connection
speed/reliability to insure you dont lag or constantly dc, and most
importantly which mods you use to help you get your class specific job
done. pressing or clicking key X makes zero difference so long as it
works for *you*.

[John Gordon]

pressing or clicking key X makes zero difference so long as it works
for *you*.

Pressing keys for oft-used abilities is faster than clicking icons.
Period. I'm sure a lot of people click icons and do just fine, but they
could do *better* if they used keys instead.

Nihilum is probably using this as a way to cut down on the number of
apps that they actually have to *read*. They don't care which specific
keybindings you use; they just want to know that you're a keypresser
and not a mouseclicker.

It's similar to looking at the grammar and spelling on a real-world job
application. Can't write a cohesive sentence? Resume goes in the trash
immediately. Mouseclicker instead of a keypresser? App gets deleted.

[Kimbelyn]

Post by John Gordon
Pressing keys for oft-used abilities is faster than clicking icons.
Period. I'm sure a lot of people click icons and do just fine, but they
could do *better* if they used keys instead.

how do you know? someone that is used to it can become very very fast.
its not hard if you play a lot of first person shooters to become very
quick and very precise with your mouse. its no different than knowing
where a spell/ability is on your action bar and getting the mouse
pointer there and clicking than it is at aiming at someones head and
taking them out.

sure, its their process and im could care less...but at the same time
they could be dismissing that one player that could mean the difference
between killing illidan and wiping.

[Catriona R]

Post by Kimbelyn
suggestions on how to be a better player is always welcome. however, i
dont think this is one of them. people setup their action bars/keys in a
way thats comfortable for them. it doesnt matter if a suggestion is
really better or not if you still have to spend days getting used to it
because your brain is still associating key X as doing this, or icon Y
being here. changing only insures that now that member *is* messing up
as they're not able to get to the skills in the same was as previously,
thus slowing them down and causing issues for all involved.

Yep. I did try adjusting to healing with keys... after a few deaths and a
lot more near-deaths due to my healing being way off its normal performance
I decided it wasn't a good idea to experiment in raids... but then how else
can I get used to it, except during fights? Much better for me to stick
with what works and what I know *will* keep the group alive.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[chocolatemalt]

Post by Catriona R

Post by Kimbelyn
suggestions on how to be a better player is always welcome. however, i
dont think this is one of them. people setup their action bars/keys in a
way thats comfortable for them. it doesnt matter if a suggestion is
really better or not if you still have to spend days getting used to it
because your brain is still associating key X as doing this, or icon Y
being here. changing only insures that now that member *is* messing up
as they're not able to get to the skills in the same was as previously,
thus slowing them down and causing issues for all involved.

Yep. I did try adjusting to healing with keys... after a few deaths and a
lot more near-deaths due to my healing being way off its normal performance
I decided it wasn't a good idea to experiment in raids... but then how else
can I get used to it, except during fights? Much better for me to stick
with what works and what I know *will* keep the group alive.

Just curious, do you use keys (F1-F5) for targeting party members to
heal? It seems like there would be some crazy mouse movement and
associated delays and mis-clicks (missing a button sometimes) if it's
all clicks on party member portraits on the upper left and then clicks
on healing buttons on the action bars. I don't have a huge amount of
healing experience, just one lvl 50 healing priest, but this setup seems
precarious to me.

Or do you use Grid + Clique or such to solve this problem?

[Kimbelyn]

Post by chocolatemalt
Just curious, do you use keys (F1-F5) for targeting party members to
heal? It seems like there would be some crazy mouse movement and
associated delays and mis-clicks (missing a button sometimes) if it's
all clicks on party member portraits on the upper left and then clicks
on healing buttons on the action bars. I don't have a huge amount of
healing experience, just one lvl 50 healing priest, but this setup seems
precarious to me.
Or do you use Grid + Clique or such to solve this problem?

i thought about trying grid, but again...i stick with what i know. from
the start of my raiding days i used ctmod/ctraid for raid frames and
organized them basically based upon an onyxia setup so i know who should
be in range as there were no fancy oRA2 raid frames which fade out if a
player isnt in range like there is today. so i basically have a setup like:

1 3 2 4
5 7 6 8

...i hope that comes across ok. so odds on the left, space in the middle
to see, evens on the right just to the left of my sidebar.

again, i would love to try grid as its much much more compact and i'd
love to get some of my screen back, but the last thing i need is to be
screwing with a mod in the middle of a raid only to cause issues with
people dying or not getting cleansed cause i cant see the debuffs, etc...

as far as using F1-F5...sometimes and sometimes i click. i heal on
autopilot anymore, so i couldnt actually tell you what im using at any
given time. my brain just does it. i can say that i use F1 for myself
almost all the time, and for 5 mans and the tank usually always at
F2...i will normally use that as well. for other party members, i
usually click.

[Zil]

Post by Kimbelyn
again, i would love to try grid as its much much more compact and i'd
love to get some of my screen back, but the last thing i need is to be
screwing with a mod in the middle of a raid only to cause issues with
people dying or not getting cleansed cause i cant see the debuffs, etc...

So why not install Grid, and have *both* interfaces on screen for a while so
you can experiment? Yes, it would take up more screen space (which I guess
you're lacking anyway judging by your comments), but that way you get to play
with Grid duing the safer moments, and use your current raidframes for the more
critical ones.

Grid + Clique = heaven, for me.

[Kimbelyn]

Post by Zil
So why not install Grid, and have *both* interfaces on screen for a while so
you can experiment? Yes, it would take up more screen space (which I guess
you're lacking anyway judging by your comments), but that way you get to play
with Grid duing the safer moments, and use your current raidframes for the more
critical ones.
Grid + Clique = heaven, for me.

thats exactly why i dont. the fights in hyjal/bt require you to see
whats going on around you. if i have multiple raid frames covering more
of the screen it may cause me to miss something important. these fights
can be very touchy in the sense a single person can wipe the raid by
missing one little detail here or there.

i thought about disabling oRA2 and grabbing grid and then going into a
battleground like eots or ab with 15 people and playing with it there. i
just dont want to be reported for being afk. not sure of the penalty,
but its another option.

[Catriona R]

Post by Kimbelyn

Post by Zil
So why not install Grid, and have *both* interfaces on screen for a while so
you can experiment? Yes, it would take up more screen space (which I guess
you're lacking anyway judging by your comments), but that way you get to play
with Grid duing the safer moments, and use your current raidframes for the more
critical ones.
Grid + Clique = heaven, for me.

thats exactly why i dont. the fights in hyjal/bt require you to see
whats going on around you. if i have multiple raid frames covering more
of the screen it may cause me to miss something important. these fights
can be very touchy in the sense a single person can wipe the raid by
missing one little detail here or there.
i thought about disabling oRA2 and grabbing grid and then going into a
battleground like eots or ab with 15 people and playing with it there. i
just dont want to be reported for being afk. not sure of the penalty,
but its another option.

How about forming a group with a friend and using that to look at the
options, then go Kara or someplace to try healing with it? That way you
don't need to worry about an unfamiliar interface in a difficult place but
can learn about it in action. I personally find it a lot better than the
CTRA frames I was previously using but it takes some option tweaking - if
you do go for it, select the "invert colours" option or whatever it's
called; it makes it *way* clearer.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 39)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Zil]

Post by Catriona R
How about forming a group with a friend and using that to look at the
options, then go Kara or someplace to try healing with it? That way you
don't need to worry about an unfamiliar interface in a difficult place but
can learn about it in action.

You can still play around with it when you're not in a group - you just
get one grid square instead of 5/10/25. It gives you chance to play around
with the options and try it out.

Or you could just do a 5-man instance (Grid is equally usable in groups
of any size).

Post by Catriona R
I personally find it a lot better than the CTRA frames I was previously using
but it takes some option tweaking.

I found it to be slightly confusing at first - I wasn't used to all those
little coloured squares - but once I tweaked the configuration so that the
colour and position of the indicators had a more memorable meaning for me, it
all clicked.

It might be too much information for some, but I'd recommened getting the
GridSideIndicators module, which adds indicators for the 4 edges of the Grid
squares, allowing even more information to be shown.

There are several other great Grid modules too - for instance the one that
shows incoming heals from others. It's not 100% accurate, I think, since it
relies on the other healers having an addon that uses the appropriate code, but
it'll only generate false negatives, not false positives, so if it shows an
incoming heal on someone, that's correct. It makes it much easier to decide
who to heal when the action's hotting up and several people need healing.

GridManaBars is a module that will add mana bars to the Grid display. Not
exactly critical, but it's nice to be able to track other healers' mana.

GridStatusHots will add an indicator that shows when *your* HoTs are
active on a player - I find this tremendously useful, as I use Renew a
lot.

And there are many other usful modules too - see http://files.wowace.com

Post by Catriona R
- if you do go for it, select the "invert
colours" option or whatever it's called; it makes it *way* clearer.

Agreed 100% - I've no idea why the default colours are the way they are -
inverting them was the first thing I did and makes it a whole lot
easier to see who needs healing.

[Babe Bridou]

Post by Zil

Post by Catriona R
How about forming a group with a friend and using that to look at the
options, then go Kara or someplace to try healing with it? That way you
don't need to worry about an unfamiliar interface in a difficult place but
can learn about it in action.

You can still play around with it when you're not in a group - you just
get one grid square instead of 5/10/25. It gives you chance to play around
with the options and try it out.
Or you could just do a 5-man instance (Grid is equally usable in groups
of any size).

I just join Alterac Valley ;)

Post by Zil

Post by Catriona R
- if you do go for it, select the "invert
colours" option or whatever it's called; it makes it *way* clearer.

Agreed 100% - I've no idea why the default colours are the way they are -
inverting them was the first thing I did and makes it a whole lot
easier to see who needs healing.

For the human eye it's easier to see a bright spot in a dark place
than a dark spot in a bright place. Switching the colors might help
make more sense off the informations displayed, that's true, but
whether you like it or not, you will notice definitely faster who
needs "help" with the default color settings - unless you're
colorblind, that is.

[Catriona R]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 01:41:45 -0800 (PST), Babe Bridou

Post by Babe Bridou

Post by Zil

Post by Catriona R
- if you do go for it, select the "invert
colours" option or whatever it's called; it makes it *way* clearer.

Agreed 100% - I've no idea why the default colours are the way they are -
inverting them was the first thing I did and makes it a whole lot
easier to see who needs healing.

For the human eye it's easier to see a bright spot in a dark place
than a dark spot in a bright place. Switching the colors might help
make more sense off the informations displayed, that's true, but
whether you like it or not, you will notice definitely faster who
needs "help" with the default color settings - unless you're
colorblind, that is.

You sure of that? When I had it on default it was just an even darker spot
in an already dark place. Utterly useless for seeing anything!
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 39)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Catriona R]

Post by Zil
It might be too much information for some, but I'd recommened getting the
GridSideIndicators module, which adds indicators for the 4 edges of the Grid
squares, allowing even more information to be shown.

Hmm didn't know that existed, think it already shows me enough though,
can't think of much I'm missing :-)

Post by Zil
There are several other great Grid modules too - for instance the one that
shows incoming heals from others. It's not 100% accurate, I think, since it
relies on the other healers having an addon that uses the appropriate code, but
it'll only generate false negatives, not false positives, so if it shows an
incoming heal on someone, that's correct. It makes it much easier to decide
who to heal when the action's hotting up and several people need healing.

Thought that came in the addon by default? I've not added anything extra
and it does that anyway ;-)

Post by Zil
GridStatusHots will add an indicator that shows when *your* HoTs are
active on a player - I find this tremendously useful, as I use Renew a
lot.

Now that one I like the idea of, I have it set to show renew but it's only
very informative when I'm the only priest (although if I'm not the only
priest and there's no renew on the tank at least I know the other one's
slacking I guess.

Post by Zil

Post by Catriona R
- if you do go for it, select the "invert
colours" option or whatever it's called; it makes it *way* clearer.

Agreed 100% - I've no idea why the default colours are the way they are -
inverting them was the first thing I did and makes it a whole lot
easier to see who needs healing.

Yep I used it as default for a couple of weeks before I found that option
and wondered why everyone thought Grid was so clear... then I found it and
wow, *much* better.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 39)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Zil]

Post by Catriona R

Post by Zil
It might be too much information for some, but I'd recommened getting the
GridSideIndicators module, which adds indicators for the 4 edges of the Grid
squares, allowing even more information to be shown.

Hmm didn't know that existed, think it already shows me enough though,
can't think of much I'm missing :-)

I have lots of information I want to display, and the 4 corners simply
aren't enough for me.
- My HoTs active
- Type of debuff (disease/magic/poison/curse)
- current target
- suggested person to heal
- number of active HoTs
- Shield/Weakened Soul active
- Aggro indicator
- Incoming heals
...

Post by Catriona R

Post by Zil
There are several other great Grid modules too - for instance the one that
shows incoming heals from others. It's not 100% accurate, I think, since it
relies on the other healers having an addon that uses the appropriate code, but
it'll only generate false negatives, not false positives, so if it shows an
incoming heal on someone, that's correct. It makes it much easier to decide
who to heal when the action's hotting up and several people need healing.

Thought that came in the addon by default? I've not added anything extra
and it does that anyway ;-)

Yes, my mistake. /blush

There is a separate GridStatusIncomingHeals module, but that only seems
to spot heals from some players, not others. I suspect it's down to
whether or not a player useses an addon that supports the underlying
healing library of code.

Post by Catriona R

Post by Zil
GridStatusHots will add an indicator that shows when *your* HoTs are
active on a player - I find this tremendously useful, as I use Renew a
lot.

Now that one I like the idea of, I have it set to show renew but it's only
very informative when I'm the only priest (although if I'm not the only
priest and there's no renew on the tank at least I know the other one's
slacking I guess.

GridStatusHotStack will give you an indicator that shows *how many* HoTs
are on someone. I find this quite useful - I know when to nag my healing
team into applying more HoTs :)

I've just discovered GridExtraBar which adds a second translucent bar
behind the health bar. Use it in conjunction with
GridStatusIncomingHealth to get a HealingEstimator-like view of how
much the spell you're currently casting will heal your target. I find
this very handy.

<3 Grid

[Catriona R]

Post by Zil

Post by Catriona R

Post by Zil
It might be too much information for some, but I'd recommened getting the
GridSideIndicators module, which adds indicators for the 4 edges of the Grid
squares, allowing even more information to be shown.

Hmm didn't know that existed, think it already shows me enough though,
can't think of much I'm missing :-)

I have lots of information I want to display, and the 4 corners simply
aren't enough for me.
- My HoTs active
- Type of debuff (disease/magic/poison/curse)
- current target
- suggested person to heal
- number of active HoTs
- Shield/Weakened Soul active
- Aggro indicator
- Incoming heals
...

I manage all that with the default options though :-P Or roughly anyway...

Hots = renew indicator bottom right corner
Debuff = top right corner, only need disease/magic as I can't cure the
others (and anyway decursive is better for that)
Current target = whole outside edge of square
suggested person to heal, don't have that, can figure it out from the rest
easy enough
number of active hots, not really needed and not too sure how it could be
shown with coloured indicators anyway tbh
shield = bottom right, higher priority than renew
aggro = top left
inc heals = bottom left

Works for me ;-)

Post by Zil

Post by Catriona R

Post by Zil
There are several other great Grid modules too - for instance the one that
shows incoming heals from others. It's not 100% accurate, I think, since it
relies on the other healers having an addon that uses the appropriate code, but
it'll only generate false negatives, not false positives, so if it shows an
incoming heal on someone, that's correct. It makes it much easier to decide
who to heal when the action's hotting up and several people need healing.

Thought that came in the addon by default? I've not added anything extra
and it does that anyway ;-)

Yes, my mistake. /blush
There is a separate GridStatusIncomingHeals module, but that only seems
to spot heals from some players, not others. I suspect it's down to
whether or not a player useses an addon that supports the underlying
healing library of code.

Ahh I see, and yeah I've always noticed there's often some healers who I
just don't see incoming heals from, which is kinda irritating. It's great
when both other healers in Kara/ZA do show up though, makes it easy to see
what's happening.

Post by Zil

Post by Catriona R

Post by Zil
GridStatusHots will add an indicator that shows when *your* HoTs are
active on a player - I find this tremendously useful, as I use Renew a
lot.

Now that one I like the idea of, I have it set to show renew but it's only
very informative when I'm the only priest (although if I'm not the only
priest and there's no renew on the tank at least I know the other one's
slacking I guess.

GridStatusHotStack will give you an indicator that shows *how many* HoTs
are on someone. I find this quite useful - I know when to nag my healing
team into applying more HoTs :)

Ahh, useful! I sometimes try and check the HoTs on the tank but hunting for
the icons in among a million others takes time, that'd definitely be a
handy one, will look out for that :-)

Post by Zil
I've just discovered GridExtraBar which adds a second translucent bar
behind the health bar. Use it in conjunction with
GridStatusIncomingHealth to get a HealingEstimator-like view of how
much the spell you're currently casting will heal your target. I find
this very handy.

Hmm that could be useful although I've probably already got too much info
in a small space, will consider it though :-)
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 42)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Catriona R]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:03:49 -0700, chocolatemalt

Post by chocolatemalt
Just curious, do you use keys (F1-F5) for targeting party members to
heal? It seems like there would be some crazy mouse movement and
associated delays and mis-clicks (missing a button sometimes) if it's
all clicks on party member portraits on the upper left and then clicks
on healing buttons on the action bars. I don't have a huge amount of
healing experience, just one lvl 50 healing priest, but this setup seems
precarious to me.

Nope, tried F1-F5 and ended up mistargetting far too often. For party
healing I use Partybars, puts a bar of buttons next to each party member
specific to that member, so I click the heal button next to the tank and it
heals the tank. Raid healing I just use Grid and have it placed near my
healing buttons so I don't have to move the mouse far and everything's in
the same field of vision.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 37)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was Catriona R <***@totalise.co.uk> that wrote
something like...

Post by Catriona R
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:03:49 -0700, chocolatemalt

Post by chocolatemalt
Just curious, do you use keys (F1-F5) for targeting party members to
heal? It seems like there would be some crazy mouse movement and
associated delays and mis-clicks (missing a button sometimes) if it's
all clicks on party member portraits on the upper left and then clicks
on healing buttons on the action bars. I don't have a huge amount of
healing experience, just one lvl 50 healing priest, but this setup seems
precarious to me.

Nope, tried F1-F5 and ended up mistargetting far too often. For party
healing I use Partybars, puts a bar of buttons next to each party member
specific to that member, so I click the heal button next to the tank and it
heals the tank. Raid healing I just use Grid and have it placed near my
healing buttons so I don't have to move the mouse far and everything's in
the same field of vision.

That's different to using the default interface and only using the
mouse though. I'd challenge anyone to find someone that is faster
healing by clicking the targets portrait the clicking the appropriate
heal all the way down on the toolbar down at the bottom than by
clicking on the targets portrait and hitting a hotkey.

Incidentally, we don't actually know that they really care about what
you have hotkeyed where. The might be more interested in seeing what
keys you have bound for movement and if you even have certain
abilities bound to a key, such as "assist". Or, they might only be
interested in seeing whether you've actually done anything about
changing the default key bindings. And this might just be another way
of getting a feel for the applicant. Are they the sort of person that
plays and fiddles around with settings or someone that takes what
they're given and makes the most of it. And an argument could be made
for either being better. When you have a good solid plan for a boss,
you don't want tinkerer's trying to improve it mid fight.

Ashen Shugar

[Catriona R]

Post by Ashen Shugar
something like...

Post by Catriona R
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:03:49 -0700, chocolatemalt

Post by chocolatemalt
Just curious, do you use keys (F1-F5) for targeting party members to
heal? It seems like there would be some crazy mouse movement and
associated delays and mis-clicks (missing a button sometimes) if it's
all clicks on party member portraits on the upper left and then clicks
on healing buttons on the action bars. I don't have a huge amount of
healing experience, just one lvl 50 healing priest, but this setup seems
precarious to me.

Nope, tried F1-F5 and ended up mistargetting far too often. For party
healing I use Partybars, puts a bar of buttons next to each party member
specific to that member, so I click the heal button next to the tank and it
heals the tank. Raid healing I just use Grid and have it placed near my
healing buttons so I don't have to move the mouse far and everything's in
the same field of vision.

That's different to using the default interface and only using the
mouse though. I'd challenge anyone to find someone that is faster
healing by clicking the targets portrait the clicking the appropriate
heal all the way down on the toolbar down at the bottom than by
clicking on the targets portrait and hitting a hotkey.

Heh true indeed, I tried that once and once only, immediately set about
getting addons to help as no way it was gonna work well. But no-one
applying to a raid guild would be doing that anyway - the party frames are
a fat lot of use for healing the 20 people not in your party :-P

Post by Ashen Shugar
Incidentally, we don't actually know that they really care about what
you have hotkeyed where. The might be more interested in seeing what
keys you have bound for movement and if you even have certain
abilities bound to a key, such as "assist". Or, they might only be
interested in seeing whether you've actually done anything about
changing the default key bindings. And this might just be another way
of getting a feel for the applicant. Are they the sort of person that
plays and fiddles around with settings or someone that takes what
they're given and makes the most of it. And an argument could be made
for either being better. When you have a good solid plan for a boss,
you don't want tinkerer's trying to improve it mid fight.

True ("assist" is by default bound to F btw, so everyone should have it
bound to something unless they deliberately unbound it :-P) However having
seen various attitudes that indicate some people think clicking can't
possibly be good enough, I suspect it's a way to automatically reject those
who don't fit that view.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 64)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 53)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 39)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was Catriona R <***@totalise.co.uk> that wrote
something like...

Post by Catriona R

Post by Ashen Shugar
something like...

Post by Catriona R
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:03:49 -0700, chocolatemalt

Post by chocolatemalt
Just curious, do you use keys (F1-F5) for targeting party members to
heal? It seems like there would be some crazy mouse movement and
associated delays and mis-clicks (missing a button sometimes) if it's
all clicks on party member portraits on the upper left and then clicks
on healing buttons on the action bars. I don't have a huge amount of
healing experience, just one lvl 50 healing priest, but this setup seems
precarious to me.

Nope, tried F1-F5 and ended up mistargetting far too often. For party
healing I use Partybars, puts a bar of buttons next to each party member
specific to that member, so I click the heal button next to the tank and it
heals the tank. Raid healing I just use Grid and have it placed near my
healing buttons so I don't have to move the mouse far and everything's in
the same field of vision.

That's different to using the default interface and only using the
mouse though. I'd challenge anyone to find someone that is faster
healing by clicking the targets portrait the clicking the appropriate
heal all the way down on the toolbar down at the bottom than by
clicking on the targets portrait and hitting a hotkey.

Heh true indeed, I tried that once and once only, immediately set about
getting addons to help as no way it was gonna work well. But no-one
applying to a raid guild would be doing that anyway - the party frames are
a fat lot of use for healing the 20 people not in your party :-P

You really don't think Nihilum would be getting applications from
people wanting to get into *the* raiding guild despite being
absolutely crap players?

And hey, I've healed in a Kara run only using Clique and blizzards
default raid interface. I dunno if I did any real good, there were
two other healer specs which seemed like it might have been over kill
to me but in anycase, the raid ended due to time rather then a crappy
healer causing wipe after wipe. ;p
(and no, there wasn't wipe after wipe. One wipe on Maiden when the
main tank went splat almost straight away for some reason (my first
time at Maiden. I probably should have put a PoM on them sooner) but
that's the only one I definitely recall.)


Actually, what would be interesting to see in this thread would be to
hear from someone that actually did apply to Nihilum and how it went.

Ashen Shugar

[Hans Escher]

Catriona R

Post by Catriona R
Yep. I did try adjusting to healing with keys... after a few deaths and a
lot more near-deaths due to my healing being way off its normal performance
I decided it wasn't a good idea to experiment in raids... but then how else
can I get used to it, except during fights? Much better for me to stick
with what works and what I know *will* keep the group alive.

I decided to click the link to Nihilums recruitment...
They are searching for 2 feral druids and 2 Warlocks, not for
healers. Maybe they would have other questions for healers?

[Freddie Freeloader]

Post by Kimbelyn

Post by Freddie Freeloader
Granted, but do you think it's possible that someone might indeed know
better? If someone could have a look at your key-bindings and suggest some
changes that might change the way you play for the better, and those
changes might increase your enjoyment of the game, how would you react
to that? Would you dismiss their suggestions out of hand, or would you
give the changes a go to see if they worked for you?

suggestions on how to be a better player is always welcome. however, i
dont think this is one of them. people setup their action bars/keys in
a way thats comfortable for them. it doesnt matter if a suggestion is
really better or not if you still have to spend days getting used to
it because your brain is still associating key X as doing this, or
icon Y being here.

Yes, changing the way that you do things will almost certainly have a
negative impact in the short term. But if, in the long term, it makes
you more effective perhaps it's worth it.

Post by Kimbelyn
im with catriona on this one. this is just absurd and pointless. i
know exactly where my abilities are, and i use a combination of
keypresses for my most used/most critical abilities and mouse clicks
for lesser used ones. in fact, my three healer classes have nearly
identical action bar setups based on ability type as far as heals/hots
and dispel/cleanse/decurse. they have been this way for 3 years and
being told i have to change it will just earn you a quick 'die in a
fire' tell.

Who would tell you to change your bindings? The original post on this
thread was about nihilum asking applicants to tell them what their key
bindings were, not about enforced changes to bindings. I've not seen
any indication that they'd enforce a particular set of bindings on
anyone.

Post by Kimbelyn
i think there are much more important questions to be asked, as stated
above. pc specs to insure you have decent fps, connection
speed/reliability to insure you dont lag or constantly dc, and most
importantly which mods you use to help you get your class specific job
done. pressing or clicking key X makes zero difference so long as it
works for *you*.

Asking about your key bindings doesn't preclude them from also asking
those other questions, in fact I'm sure that they do ask them.

[Candido]

Post by Kimbelyn
suggestions on how to be a better player is always welcome. however, i
dont think this is one of them.

The point is, IMHO, that we know *what* they ask but we don't know *why*
thay ask...

[p***@gmail.com]

If you click, you will never be as fast as a hotkeyer, I don't care
how good "you" think you are, its impossible to click and be fast,
almost every game to get pro you need to hotkey, i.e. warcraft,
starcraft. Your lagging behind others, I see it all the time,
clickers that can barely turn, clickers that cant hang in the 2 k +
bracket in arena because they cant move/jump and fight/heal.

I will teach you my pro setup which all can do and it will make you
10x times better than you already are.

I have played many classes to 70 and for all classes this works, even
the intensive, shaman/paladins key bindings.

Paladin is a bit different because it uses extra keys, but for all the
other classes I will tell you what to do.

try to stay comfortable using only 4 key layout so place your moves:

1234
qwer
asdf
zxcv

Yes move forward, right left back is wasd, but you can also assign
moves to these keys.

I prefer control as it lays naturally on the pinky, I also use shift,
but prefer control.

so c+wasd you have 4 extra moves

You always, always always use your mouse to move, do not use your
keys, think as if your playing a FPS do you use your keyboard to turn?
NO, if you do your a noob and I don't want to hear otherwise.

now you have these

C+qwer, asdf, zxcv

Like lets say your paladin you need to bubble press F, you need to bop
someone press control+F simple right? A hell of alot faster than
clicking.

As a shadow priest, I have my dispel, and mass dispel setup like this.

V dispel
c+v mass dispel

I usually always group like keys, like as a shaman I would group
certain totems

so all air totems, maybe zxcv, fire c+zxcv ( as a shaman I could throw
all my totems down, tank, dps, throw up heals without getting
overloaded, when I see clicker shamans, they barely have any totems
down, they barely are doing anything effective).

As a hunter I would use control+mouse 4 to mark up my target and mouse
4 to send pet into attack ( also on that note, I don't care what
anyone says boar is the best pvp pet, if you say otherwise just
uninstall wow, if you control the boar on manual, you can get multiple
stuns on an opponent with in 30s-1 minute fight, by manually control
the charge, and setting the pet to passive to bring it back and
charging in again this = overpowered especially as marksman where your
pet isnt doing much anyways).


Now as a paladin this is the only class that I would say can be played
most efficiently almost mouseless, depending. In bgs would probably
be the only place I would say you can go mouseless, because its ez
mode and you dont really need full directional control of the mouse,
you can basically follow a friend and heal up the group, and be using
your full keyboard im talking the right side numpad as well.

With using the 4 key width, and maybe adding in a F, G in there for a
few extra moves, you should have no problem binding everything you
need, I do click somethings, depending on the situation, like my
engineering toys, but if Im rolling with no bars and just a hud pvping
I have no bars up helps with full 360 situational awareness = getting
that attack off a fraction earlier, or defensive move off.

I use t and control t for my netherdrake and mount, t for mount so I
can mount up in a fraction of a second. I can almost escape any gank
as a shadow priest, even with 2+ people jumping me because I'm fast on
defensive, now with shadow form dropping auto when a heal is thrown up
= even more faster on staying alive.

You get used to keybindings you will see its 100% less work to press a
key quickly then to look at your bar and click, even if you know where
everything is, your still far behind. Almost everryone I run into pvp
wise or in pve I can tell right away they click because they move like
there lagging, choppy with blocky movements, its so ugly to look at
makes me want to quit wow, and go back to playing games with skill
competively.. because wow players are just terrible gamers, the bgs
are filled with noobs, only time I get to see decent skill is in
arena, and even then its so unbalanced especially for me as a shadow
priest since we can only really play 2v2 and 3v3s effectively, 5s we
are basically a tank getting interrupted the entire time.

Your pro or your noob thats life.

[Xymmie]

<***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:be0c155d-4407-4256-9b66-***@w28g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Almost everryone I run into pvp

Post by p***@gmail.com
wise or in pve I can tell right away they click because they move like
there lagging, choppy with blocky movements, its so ugly to look at
makes me want to quit wow, and go back to playing games with skill
competively.. because wow players are just terrible gamers, the bgs
are filled with noobs, only time I get to see decent skill is in
arena, and even then its so unbalanced especially for me as a shadow
priest

Poor you.

Xymmie

[lcpltom]

Post by p***@gmail.com
If you click, you will never be as fast as a hotkeyer, I don't care
how good "you" think you are, its impossible to click and be fast,
almost every game to get pro you need to hotkey, i.e. warcraft,
starcraft. Your lagging behind others, I see it all the time,
clickers that can barely turn, clickers that cant hang in the 2 k +
bracket in arena because they cant move/jump and fight/heal.
I will teach you my pro setup which all can do and it will make you
10x times better than you already are.
I have played many classes to 70 and for all classes this works, even
the intensive, shaman/paladins key bindings.
Paladin is a bit different because it uses extra keys, but for all the
other classes I will tell you what to do.
1234
qwer
asdf
zxcv
Yes move forward, right left back is wasd, but you can also assign
moves to these keys.
I prefer control as it lays naturally on the pinky, I also use shift,
but prefer control.
so c+wasd you have 4 extra moves
You always, always always use your mouse to move, do not use your
keys, think as if your playing a FPS do you use your keyboard to turn?
NO, if you do your a noob and I don't want to hear otherwise.
now you have these
C+qwer, asdf, zxcv
Like lets say your paladin you need to bubble press F, you need to bop
someone press control+F simple right? A hell of alot faster than
clicking.
As a shadow priest, I have my dispel, and mass dispel setup like this.
V dispel
c+v mass dispel
I usually always group like keys, like as a shaman I would group
certain totems
so all air totems, maybe zxcv, fire c+zxcv ( as a shaman I could throw
all my totems down, tank, dps, throw up heals without getting
overloaded, when I see clicker shamans, they barely have any totems
down, they barely are doing anything effective).
As a hunter I would use control+mouse 4 to mark up my target and mouse
4 to send pet into attack ( also on that note, I don't care what
anyone says boar is the best pvp pet, if you say otherwise just
uninstall wow, if you control the boar on manual, you can get multiple
stuns on an opponent with in 30s-1 minute fight, by manually control
the charge, and setting the pet to passive to bring it back and
charging in again this = overpowered especially as marksman where your
pet isnt doing much anyways).
Now as a paladin this is the only class that I would say can be played
most efficiently almost mouseless, depending. In bgs would probably
be the only place I would say you can go mouseless, because its ez
mode and you dont really need full directional control of the mouse,
you can basically follow a friend and heal up the group, and be using
your full keyboard im talking the right side numpad as well.
With using the 4 key width, and maybe adding in a F, G in there for a
few extra moves, you should have no problem binding everything you
need, I do click somethings, depending on the situation, like my
engineering toys, but if Im rolling with no bars and just a hud pvping
I have no bars up helps with full 360 situational awareness = getting
that attack off a fraction earlier, or defensive move off.
I use t and control t for my netherdrake and mount, t for mount so I
can mount up in a fraction of a second. I can almost escape any gank
as a shadow priest, even with 2+ people jumping me because I'm fast on
defensive, now with shadow form dropping auto when a heal is thrown up
= even more faster on staying alive.
You get used to keybindings you will see its 100% less work to press a
key quickly then to look at your bar and click, even if you know where
everything is, your still far behind. Almost everryone I run into pvp
wise or in pve I can tell right away they click because they move like
there lagging, choppy with blocky movements, its so ugly to look at
makes me want to quit wow, and go back to playing games with skill
competively.. because wow players are just terrible gamers, the bgs
are filled with noobs, only time I get to see decent skill is in
arena, and even then its so unbalanced especially for me as a shadow
priest since we can only really play 2v2 and 3v3s effectively, 5s we
are basically a tank getting interrupted the entire time.
Your pro or your noob thats life.

Just stop for one moment and think about this sentence, "If someone
looks like they are lagging, its probably because they are lagging."

There is no way you can tell just by watching how someone moves in the
game if they have abilities hot keyed.

And your attempt to classify people into 2 categories, pro and noob,
is somewhat short sighted. You're saying if I don't remap a bunch of
abilities to hotkeys that makes me a noob. I think you misunderstand
the definition of noob. I'm not your teacher though, so I'm not going
to explain it to you.

There is one word I do want you to be aware of though, actually more
of a theory I read about. Its called the John Gabriel's Greater
Internet Dickwad Theory, which states: Normal Person (you) + Anonymity
(posting here where no one will ever know who you actually are) +
Audience (this group) = Total Dickwad (you again).

[p***@gmail.com]

This is why Nihilum doesn't recruit clickers, cas they are noob and
they are #1, its a mind set, 99% of wow players are noobs in all
aspects of life, clicking is just one of those aspects, they cant undo
it, it is just what it is.

Your pro or your noob thats life.

[Kimbelyn]

Post by p***@gmail.com
This is why Nihilum doesn't recruit clickers, cas they are noob and
they are #1, its a mind set, 99% of wow players are noobs in all
aspects of life, clicking is just one of those aspects, they cant undo
it, it is just what it is.
Your pro or your noob thats life.

...and you, sir, are either an idiot or an ass. i'll be nice and let you
figure out which one applies to you more, of if they both do equally.

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by p***@gmail.com
This is why Nihilum doesn't recruit clickers, cas they are noob and
they are #1, its a mind set, 99% of wow players are noobs in all
aspects of life, clicking is just one of those aspects, they cant undo
it, it is just what it is.

"Pro" in Nihilum's case means they get some free mouse pads. *

[Majestick]

Post by lcpltom

Post by p***@gmail.com
If you click, you will never be as fast as a hotkeyer, I don't care
how good "you" think you are, its impossible to click and be fast,
almost every game to get pro you need to hotkey, i.e. warcraft,
starcraft. Your lagging behind others, I see it all the time,
clickers that can barely turn, clickers that cant hang in the 2 k +
bracket in arena because they cant move/jump and fight/heal.
I will teach you my pro setup which all can do and it will make you
10x times better than you already are.
I have played many classes to 70 and for all classes this works, even
the intensive, shaman/paladins key bindings.
Paladin is a bit different because it uses extra keys, but for all the
other classes I will tell you what to do.
1234
qwer
asdf
zxcv
Yes move forward, right left back is wasd, but you can also assign
moves to these keys.
I prefer control as it lays naturally on the pinky, I also use shift,
but prefer control.
so c+wasd you have 4 extra moves
You always, always always use your mouse to move, do not use your
keys, think as if your playing a FPS do you use your keyboard to turn?
NO, if you do your a noob and I don't want to hear otherwise.
now you have these
C+qwer, asdf, zxcv
Like lets say your paladin you need to bubble press F, you need to bop
someone press control+F simple right? A hell of alot faster than
clicking.
As a shadow priest, I have my dispel, and mass dispel setup like this.
V dispel
c+v mass dispel
I usually always group like keys, like as a shaman I would group
certain totems
so all air totems, maybe zxcv, fire c+zxcv ( as a shaman I could throw
all my totems down, tank, dps, throw up heals without getting
overloaded, when I see clicker shamans, they barely have any totems
down, they barely are doing anything effective).
As a hunter I would use control+mouse 4 to mark up my target and mouse
4 to send pet into attack ( also on that note, I don't care what
anyone says boar is the best pvp pet, if you say otherwise just
uninstall wow, if you control the boar on manual, you can get multiple
stuns on an opponent with in 30s-1 minute fight, by manually control
the charge, and setting the pet to passive to bring it back and
charging in again this = overpowered especially as marksman where your
pet isnt doing much anyways).
Now as a paladin this is the only class that I would say can be played
most efficiently almost mouseless, depending. In bgs would probably
be the only place I would say you can go mouseless, because its ez
mode and you dont really need full directional control of the mouse,
you can basically follow a friend and heal up the group, and be using
your full keyboard im talking the right side numpad as well.
With using the 4 key width, and maybe adding in a F, G in there for a
few extra moves, you should have no problem binding everything you
need, I do click somethings, depending on the situation, like my
engineering toys, but if Im rolling with no bars and just a hud pvping
I have no bars up helps with full 360 situational awareness = getting
that attack off a fraction earlier, or defensive move off.
I use t and control t for my netherdrake and mount, t for mount so I
can mount up in a fraction of a second. I can almost escape any gank
as a shadow priest, even with 2+ people jumping me because I'm fast on
defensive, now with shadow form dropping auto when a heal is thrown up
= even more faster on staying alive.
You get used to keybindings you will see its 100% less work to press a
key quickly then to look at your bar and click, even if you know where
everything is, your still far behind. Almost everryone I run into pvp
wise or in pve I can tell right away they click because they move like
there lagging, choppy with blocky movements, its so ugly to look at
makes me want to quit wow, and go back to playing games with skill
competively.. because wow players are just terrible gamers, the bgs
are filled with noobs, only time I get to see decent skill is in
arena, and even then its so unbalanced especially for me as a shadow
priest since we can only really play 2v2 and 3v3s effectively, 5s we
are basically a tank getting interrupted the entire time.
Your pro or your noob thats life.

Just stop for one moment and think about this sentence, "If someone
looks like they are lagging, its probably because they are lagging."
There is no way you can tell just by watching how someone moves in the
game if they have abilities hot keyed.
And your attempt to classify people into 2 categories, pro and noob,
is somewhat short sighted. You're saying if I don't remap a bunch of
abilities to hotkeys that makes me a noob. I think you misunderstand
the definition of noob. I'm not your teacher though, so I'm not going
to explain it to you.
There is one word I do want you to be aware of though, actually more
of a theory I read about. Its called the John Gabriel's Greater
Internet Dickwad Theory, which states: Normal Person (you) + Anonymity
(posting here where no one will ever know who you actually are) +
Audience (this group) = Total Dickwad (you again).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

"rogue is a good class for noobs, and a easy 1-2 button smashing
class
i would stick to that "

nuff said

[p***@gmail.com]

agreed, rogue is the easiest and one of the most overpowered classes
in the game, not only can they go immuned to spell damage and most
anything a warlock/priest/mage can throw at them, they can break
almost every cc by multiple different moves, and lock down an opponent
indeffinetely, this is why my 2v2 partner is arogue :D I will take a
rogue over a warlock any day.

[lcpltom]

Post by lcpltom

Post by p***@gmail.com
If you click, you will never be as fast as a hotkeyer, I don't care
how good "you" think you are, its impossible to click and be fast,
almost every game to get pro you need to hotkey, i.e. warcraft,
starcraft. Your lagging behind others, I see it all the time,
clickers that can barely turn, clickers that cant hang in the 2 k +
bracket in arena because they cant move/jump and fight/heal.
I will teach you my pro setup which all can do and it will make you
10x times better than you already are.
I have played many classes to 70 and for all classes this works, even
the intensive, shaman/paladins key bindings.
Paladin is a bit different because it uses extra keys, but for all the
other classes I will tell you what to do.
1234
qwer
asdf
zxcv
Yes move forward, right left back is wasd, but you can also assign
moves to these keys.
I prefer control as it lays naturally on the pinky, I also use shift,
but prefer control.
so c+wasd you have 4 extra moves
You always, always always use your mouse to move, do not use your
keys, think as if your playing a FPS do you use your keyboard to turn?
NO, if you do your a noob and I don't want to hear otherwise.
now you have these
C+qwer, asdf, zxcv
Like lets say your paladin you need to bubble press F, you need to bop
someone press control+F simple right? A hell of alot faster than
clicking.
As a shadow priest, I have my dispel, and mass dispel setup like this.
V dispel
c+v mass dispel
I usually always group like keys, like as a shaman I would group
certain totems
so all air totems, maybe zxcv, fire c+zxcv ( as a shaman I could throw
all my totems down, tank, dps, throw up heals without getting
overloaded, when I see clicker shamans, they barely have any totems
down, they barely are doing anything effective).
As a hunter I would use control+mouse 4 to mark up my target and mouse
4 to send pet into attack ( also on that note, I don't care what
anyone says boar is the best pvp pet, if you say otherwise just
uninstall wow, if you control the boar on manual, you can get multiple
stuns on an opponent with in 30s-1 minute fight, by manually control
the charge, and setting the pet to passive to bring it back and
charging in again this = overpowered especially as marksman where your
pet isnt doing much anyways).
Now as a paladin this is the only class that I would say can be played
most efficiently almost mouseless, depending. In bgs would probably
be the only place I would say you can go mouseless, because its ez
mode and you dont really need full directional control of the mouse,
you can basically follow a friend and heal up the group, and be using
your full keyboard im talking the right side numpad as well.
With using the 4 key width, and maybe adding in a F, G in there for a
few extra moves, you should have no problem binding everything you
need, I do click somethings, depending on the situation, like my
engineering toys, but if Im rolling with no bars and just a hud pvping
I have no bars up helps with full 360 situational awareness = getting
that attack off a fraction earlier, or defensive move off.
I use t and control t for my netherdrake and mount, t for mount so I
can mount up in a fraction of a second. I can almost escape any gank
as a shadow priest, even with 2+ people jumping me because I'm fast on
defensive, now with shadow form dropping auto when a heal is thrown up
= even more faster on staying alive.
You get used to keybindings you will see its 100% less work to press a
key quickly then to look at your bar and click, even if you know where
everything is, your still far behind. Almost everryone I run into pvp
wise or in pve I can tell right away they click because they move like
there lagging, choppy with blocky movements, its so ugly to look at
makes me want to quit wow, and go back to playing games with skill
competively.. because wow players are just terrible gamers, the bgs
are filled with noobs, only time I get to see decent skill is in
arena, and even then its so unbalanced especially for me as a shadow
priest since we can only really play 2v2 and 3v3s effectively, 5s we
are basically a tank getting interrupted the entire time.
Your pro or your noob thats life.

Just stop for one moment and think about this sentence, "If someone
looks like they are lagging, its probably because they are lagging."
There is no way you can tell just by watching how someone moves in the
game if they have abilities hot keyed.
And your attempt to classify people into 2 categories, pro and noob,
is somewhat short sighted. You're saying if I don't remap a bunch of
abilities to hotkeys that makes me a noob. I think you misunderstand
the definition of noob. I'm not your teacher though, so I'm not going
to explain it to you.
There is one word I do want you to be aware of though, actually more
of a theory I read about. Its called the John Gabriel's Greater
Internet Dickwad Theory, which states: Normal Person (you) + Anonymity
(posting here where no one will ever know who you actually are) +
Audience (this group) = Total Dickwad (you again).

I have to reply to my own post, because I apparently made phiction
cry. He sent me an email, that body of which is below:

Your pro or your noobs thats life.

and yes I can tell if they click, 100% accurate all the time.

So shut your scrub mouth, you low rated noob.

l2 to kill dragons in your green gear.

DIAF

Probably the funniest thing I read all day. Seriously, Thanksgiving
break never started this early when I was a kid. When I drove past on
of the public schools on my way to work this morning I noticed they
didn't have classes today. Do they not realize the impact of no
classes has on the internet? Schools should take more responsibility
and during off times be responsible for cleaning trolls from forums.

[Kimbelyn]

Post by lcpltom
Probably the funniest thing I read all day. Seriously, Thanksgiving
break never started this early when I was a kid. When I drove past on
of the public schools on my way to work this morning I noticed they
didn't have classes today. Do they not realize the impact of no
classes has on the internet? Schools should take more responsibility
and during off times be responsible for cleaning trolls from forums.

i hated the idea when i was in school of the thought of going year round
like kids do in other countries. now im really in favor that school
should be 12 hours a day (8am-8pm), 6 days a week, 365 days a year minus
the day of the holiday.

amazing how views change over time.

this guy is nothing more than a troll, and a poor one at that. at least
other trolls (blackheart-pvp or whatever his name is), have the kindness
to at least be somewhat on topic and not repeat the same phrase in
dozens of posts.

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by lcpltom
I have to reply to my own post, because I apparently made phiction

Yikes. We've really had an influx of droolers lately - I've added more
names to my killfile in the last month than all of last year. *

[l***@red-dwarf.lan]

Post by p***@gmail.com
Your pro or your noob thats life.

"your" illiterate.

[Darin Johnson]

Post by p***@gmail.com
Your pro or your noob thats life.

How come there are so many illiterate "experts" out there?
It seems common that the more insistent a person is on
telling everyone how elite and superior they are, the more
they tend to sound like kindergarten drop outs. This seems
especially true on gaming web forums.

Also, the more "expert" someone claims to be the more then
seem to belittle everyone else. Another trait common to web
forums also.

Assuming he meant "you're pro or you're noob, that's life",
is the game really split into only gold farmers and novices?

--
Darin Johnson

[Tokay Pino Gris]

Post by Freddie Freeloader

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then?

I think that their definition of "playing fine" may differ from that
of the typical player. In any case they're not saying that they'll enforce a
particular set of key-bindings on you if you join, they're just asking
what bindings you currently use.
Perhaps looking at your key-bindings is a quick and simple way of
getting a feel for how you play the game and how well your style will
fit in with their guild.

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I don't want anybody who feels they know better how I should
configure my keyboard for playing for sure!

Granted, but do you think it's possible that someone might indeed know
better?

Probably. My keybindings GREW. Over 70 levels. I can hit my buttons
blindly. I KNOW where they are. It might look funny to you, but it works
for me.


If someone could have a look at your key-bindings and suggest some

Post by Freddie Freeloader
changes that might change the way you play for the better, and those
changes might increase your enjoyment of the game, how would you react
to that?

THAT is a different story. "Might suggest" "to increase enjoyment"....

Well. If I think my keybindings are crap, I can ask. But we are talking
here criteria to "hire" for a raiding guild.

Different story, actually.


Tokay

Would you dismiss their suggestions out of hand, or would you

Post by Freddie Freeloader
give the changes a go to see if they worked for you?

[Freddie Freeloader]

Post by Tokay Pino Gris

Post by Freddie Freeloader
If someone could have a look at your key-bindings and suggest some
changes that might change the way you play for the better, and those
changes might increase your enjoyment of the game, how would you react
to that?

THAT is a different story. "Might suggest" "to increase enjoyment"....
Well. If I think my keybindings are crap, I can ask. But we are
talking here criteria to "hire" for a raiding guild.
Different story, actually.

No, the criteria for hire, amongst other things, is that you *tell
them* what your bindings are. If they had a standard set of bindings
that you had to adopt I think that they might say so.

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current

Because they're freaking nuts. Ignore them. *

[Dylan Parry]

Post by Thomas Jespersen
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!?

I don't even use a Qwerty keyboard so they'd probably have a hard time
seeing how my key bindings are in any way logical.

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was Dylan Parry <***@dylanparry.com> that wrote
something like...

Post by Dylan Parry

Post by Thomas Jespersen
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!?

I don't even use a Qwerty keyboard so they'd probably have a hard time
seeing how my key bindings are in any way logical.

Heheh, yup. And my keyboard looks like
<http://www.pccasegear.com/prod2723.htm>


Ashen Shugar

[Dylan Parry]

Post by Ashen Shugar
Heheh, yup. And my keyboard looks like
<http://www.pccasegear.com/prod2723.htm>

A lot more complicated than mine, that's for sure! Mine is the same
basic shape as a Qwerty, but has a layout like
Loading Image... - and although the number keys
are the same as a Qwerty, the ',.[] keys would appear to be odd bindings
to anyone who hadn't seen my keyboard.

[PhilHibbs]

Post by Ashen Shugar

Post by Dylan Parry
I don't even use a Qwerty keyboard so they'd probably have a hard time
seeing how my key bindings are in any way logical.

Heheh, yup. And my keyboard looks like
<http://www.pccasegear.com/prod2723.htm>

I suspect Nihilum officers will know about gaming keyboards.

Phil.

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was PhilHibbs <***@gmail.com> that wrote something
like...

Post by PhilHibbs

Post by Ashen Shugar

Post by Dylan Parry
I don't even use a Qwerty keyboard so they'd probably have a hard time
seeing how my key bindings are in any way logical.

Heheh, yup. And my keyboard looks like
<http://www.pccasegear.com/prod2723.htm>

I suspect Nihilum officers will know about gaming keyboards.
Phil.

I would think so too. But the question then becomes what do they do
with knowledge of your keybindings if they don't also know what sort
of keyboard you're using?

And I only just then really realised. Your keybindings don't really
have anything to do with what spells and abilities you have where, so
the whole side conversation about healing doesn't have anything to do
with Nihilum asking about keybindings.

Ashen Shugar

[Urs Steiner]

Post by Ashen Shugar
like...

Post by PhilHibbs

Post by Ashen Shugar

Post by Dylan Parry
I don't even use a Qwerty keyboard so they'd probably have a hard time
seeing how my key bindings are in any way logical.

Heheh, yup. And my keyboard looks like
<http://www.pccasegear.com/prod2723.htm>

I suspect Nihilum officers will know about gaming keyboards.
Phil.

I would think so too. But the question then becomes what do they do
with knowledge of your keybindings if they don't also know what sort
of keyboard you're using?

they probably expect you to tell them you have a different keyboard...
And if you don't tell them by yourselves, it might be another indicator
they don't want you ...

Post by Ashen Shugar
And I only just then really realised. Your keybindings don't really
have anything to do with what spells and abilities you have where, so
the whole side conversation about healing doesn't have anything to do
with Nihilum asking about keybindings.

the really fascinating part is actually a huge thread speculating about
something which probably wouldn't concern anyone here ...

I mean how many high-level, EU based, pvp-server-based, horde raiders do
we have here?

and could be easily found out if anyone would just bother to ask the
Nihilum people :)

Urs

[Ashen Shugar]

I think it was Urs Steiner <***@darkstone.ch> that wrote something
like...

Post by Urs Steiner

Post by Ashen Shugar
And I only just then really realised. Your keybindings don't really
have anything to do with what spells and abilities you have where, so
the whole side conversation about healing doesn't have anything to do
with Nihilum asking about keybindings.

the really fascinating part is actually a huge thread speculating about
something which probably wouldn't concern anyone here ...
I mean how many high-level, EU based, pvp-server-based, horde raiders do
we have here?
and could be easily found out if anyone would just bother to ask the
Nihilum people :)

lol! Don't be silly. Then what would we have to talk about? ;p

Ashen Shugar

[Chinese Farmer]

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
Nihilum:http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!
Weird.

Maybe they are just gathering info to settle an in-guild bet. :)

[Hornet]

Post by Thomas Jespersen
I was just curious of a top-end raid guilds requirements so I looked up
Nihilum:http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/news/131,recruitment_open/
One of the requirements for an application I find a bit odd. They want to
know your keybindings!? If you are able to play fine with your current
keybindings what is the problem then? I don't want anybody who feels they
know better how I should configure my keyboard for playing for sure!
Weird.

They dont want to change it. They want to know how you've arranged it
and the thought process behind it. ie do you have taunt as 1 or 3 or 8
or ?. What skills have you placed in areas that are easy to use the
keyboard vs clicking. If you're using macros or not so much.

They're looking to see how you understand your class and how you play
it, thats all. It's picky, but they're the best for a reason.