How to pause?

[Burt Johnson]

I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(

Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?

[Alex Mars]

No, it is an online game that runs all the time. You need to log out
or find a safe place to hide.

[Apheliona]

If you play a nightelf, you can always use shadowmeld to reduce the chance
of getting spotted by a passing mob.

-Aph

Post by Alex Mars
No, it is an online game that runs all the time. You need to log out
or find a safe place to hide.

[Brian]

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read Burt Johnson's latest post to
alt.games.warcraft.

Post by Burt Johnson
I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(
Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?

There is no pause. Even if you log out, the world continues on in your
absence (although when you're logged out, you can't get killed by random
mobs).

Generally, if I have to go AFK in the middle of a session, I'll try to find
a quiet corner to hide in, hopefully out of the detection range of
wandering mobs. Or, just log out.

Brian

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Brian
"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read Burt Johnson's latest post to
alt.games.warcraft.

Post by Burt Johnson
I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(
Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?

There is no pause. Even if you log out, the world continues on in your
absence (although when you're logged out, you can't get killed by random
mobs).
Generally, if I have to go AFK in the middle of a session, I'll try to find
a quiet corner to hide in, hopefully out of the detection range of
wandering mobs. Or, just log out.

I was kinda hoping someone would say "type AFK" to pause or some such.
Guess I will just have to logout, and press 'now you fool!" button.

Why does it want to wait 20 seconds first???

[S***@Milliken.com]

So you can't use it as a way of escaping a fight.

[JFlexer]

Post by S***@Milliken.com
So you can't use it as a way of escaping a fight.

Which is exactly why there's not a "pause" button...

--
-J

[Marshall]

Post by JFlexer

Post by S***@Milliken.com
So you can't use it as a way of escaping a fight.

Which is exactly why there's not a "pause" button...

Um, not exactly :-) The reason there is no pause button, is be-
cause if there was, it would have to pause the whole server,
just for you. I suspect the other paying players would get more
than a little annoyed if you fell asleep on the can after hitting
pause.
-Marshall

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Marshall

Post by JFlexer

Post by S***@Milliken.com
So you can't use it as a way of escaping a fight.

Which is exactly why there's not a "pause" button...

Um, not exactly :-) The reason there is no pause button, is be-
cause if there was, it would have to pause the whole server,
just for you. I suspect the other paying players would get more
than a little annoyed if you fell asleep on the can after hitting
pause.
-Marshall

Not necessarily. My vision of a pause button would be one that would
just place the player in a 'AFK' state immediately.

I don't think players are attacked when they are in that mode, are they?

"If I were the designer of this game..." I would have the pause (or AFK
state) turn the player into a virtual ghost. Other players would be able
to see the player sitting with an 'AFK' indictor in the name, but the
person would just disappear relative to any monsters.

Perhaps there would be some prohibition against using the pause command
while in battle.

[Urbin]

Post by Burt Johnson
I don't think players are attacked when they are in that mode, are they?

Good luck trying that out and watching your toon die a painful death ;-)

Post by Burt Johnson
"If I were the designer of this game..." I would have the pause (or AFK
state) turn the player into a virtual ghost. Other players would be able
to see the player sitting with an 'AFK' indictor in the name, but the
person would just disappear relative to any monsters.

Yes, I would like that, too...

Post by Burt Johnson
Perhaps there would be some prohibition against using the pause command
while in battle.

... but even with that restriction it would make abuse too easy. You could
just AFK if you saw an overpowered opponent walk towards you *before* battle
started, wait till it's gone and de-AFK safely.

While I wish for the comfort of a 'short, immediate and quick' logout I can
see, why they don't give it to us.

Cheers
Urbin, who has adjusted to the reality of WoW

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Urbin

Post by Burt Johnson
Perhaps there would be some prohibition against using the pause command
while in battle.

... but even with that restriction it would make abuse too easy. You could
just AFK if you saw an overpowered opponent walk towards you *before* battle
started, wait till it's gone and de-AFK safely.

So what? I don't see how it harms me if someone else wants to dilute
their own game experience by using "cheats".

[Christian Stauffer]

Post by Burt Johnson
So what? I don't see how it harms me if someone else wants to dilute
their own game experience by using "cheats".

This is a massive online game, played with thousands of other
players. Yours and their game experience are directly related.
Everything you do has consequences for other players (even if
they may be tiny, moreso at your level), everything others do
has consequences for you.

Chris

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Christian Stauffer

Post by Burt Johnson
So what? I don't see how it harms me if someone else wants to dilute
their own game experience by using "cheats".

This is a massive online game, played with thousands of other
players. Yours and their game experience are directly related.
Everything you do has consequences for other players (even if
they may be tiny, moreso at your level), everything others do
has consequences for you.

This is my first time playing an online game, or a real-time game, or a
multi-player game. Those are the types of things I am trying to grok at
this stage.

What kinds of impact would another player cheating have on me? I can
see having someone come in and wipe out all the monsters in an area I am
hunting in. Other than that though, I don't yet have enough experience
in this kind of environment to know why I would care.

[Christian Stauffer]

Post by Burt Johnson
What kinds of impact would another player cheating have on me? I can
see having someone come in and wipe out all the monsters in an area I am
hunting in. Other than that though, I don't yet have enough experience
in this kind of environment to know why I would care.

When talking about cheating in general, someone with unlimited gold for
example could completely destroy the economy. With teleporthacks (which
exist), people can plunder outdoor chests, so you'll never ever see one.
With hacked dices (loot is in general distributed by rolling virtual
dices) one could make sure he'll win everything and you'll get nothing.
Manipulating the PvP flag would allow a player to attack you while you
can't even fight back. Manipulating the trade window would allow a
player to cheat you when you try to directly sell/buy something from
him. When a player kills you, he could cheat the minimap to get your
position, so you can't get away at all. He could do that for 1 minute,
or for a whole day.

There are thousands of ways how the acting of others can affect you.
Think about the auction house for example. An item (A) doesn't sell
for 1 gold because that's the price blizzard wants this item to sell
for. It's selling for that price because the players on this servers
set that price due to supply and demand. That's why prices vary from
server to server a lot. The AH is one place where you see that your
gameplay is affected more by the other players than by the actual
game mechanics.
You wrote somewhere else that you put an item to the AH. Imagine if
everyone would be running around in hacked items (= items he didn't
win, but get by cheating). Do you think someone would buy your cheap
green item? Do you think you could buy anything from the AH when
everyone has a gazillion gold in his pouches?

Chris

[m***@evins.net]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Christian Stauffer

Post by Burt Johnson
So what? I don't see how it harms me if someone else wants to dilute
their own game experience by using "cheats".

This is a massive online game, played with thousands of other
players. Yours and their game experience are directly related.
Everything you do has consequences for other players (even if
they may be tiny, moreso at your level), everything others do
has consequences for you.

This is my first time playing an online game, or a real-time game, or a
multi-player game. Those are the types of things I am trying to grok at
this stage.
What kinds of impact would another player cheating have on me?

If someone could cheat, that is, if they could manipulate the rules to
their advantage, then they could:

- loot your kills

- transfer items and loot from you to them, stealing the fruits of your
effforts

- force you to lose your fights

- switch on your PVP flag and kill you, then hang around and make sure
you stay dead, killing you immediately every time you resurrect

- raid your gold, or your bank deposits

- kill off your questgivers and quest targets

- transport you to someplace very dangerous for you to be in, or
impossible to get out of

- create an automated character that does nothing but follow you around
and kill you

etc., etc.

If your background is in solo games, then you probably don't realize
just how rampant griefing (intentionally ruining the fun for others)
can be. I was reading a discussion among some industry professionals
about implementation issues; griefing is one of the largest issues they
face when running a successful game.

Up to a point, frustrating enemy players is the point of PVP play, but
there is some point beyond which it becomes ridiculous, and threatens
to harm your business as some players (griefers) drive others away from
your game. In effect, most players are there to play the game, but a
certain percentage are basically vandals, there to wreck anything they
can by any means available.

So it is especially important that cheating not be tolerated in
MMORPGs. It should be impossible to cheat. Human error being what it
is, that's not an achievable goal, so it should be very very hard to
cheat, and if someone is caught doing it, they should be
unceremoniously kicked out.

Just last night my 52 hunter was hunting a group of three griefers.
They were going to places like Darkshire and Three Corners, where they
were likely to find low-level players who were PVP flagged. (On a PVP
server, simply setting foot into certain zones flags you as
PVP-enabled). They would then one-shot-kill these low-level players.
The griefers were 45, 55, and 58.

They were not good players; in fact, they were bad enough that at one
point my 52 hunter killed all three of them without help. Every time
someone who could fight them showed up, they fled, only to turn up a
few minutes later at some other place where they could prey on
low-level players again. So they didn't want to play the game; they
just wanted to prevent other, lower-level players from being able to
play the game.

Every design choice in a MMORPG must be informed by this aspect of
play. You have to decide what you are going to do about the "players"
who are there only to screw things up for other players.

So when you ask what impact other players cheating could have on you,
try to imagine what these three bozos would be doing if they could
cheat.

[Burt Johnson]

Post by m***@evins.net
If your background is in solo games, then you probably don't realize
just how rampant griefing (intentionally ruining the fun for others)
can be. I was reading a discussion among some industry professionals
about implementation issues; griefing is one of the largest issues they
face when running a successful game.
Up to a point, frustrating enemy players is the point of PVP play, but
there is some point beyond which it becomes ridiculous, and threatens
to harm your business as some players (griefers) drive others away from
your game. In effect, most players are there to play the game, but a
certain percentage are basically vandals, there to wreck anything they
can by any means available.

Yeah, I guess I can see that being a problem. There are some user
groups that are plagued by one or two jerks like you mention. These
idiots seem to delete in just being stupid and trying to insult anyone
and everyone, and are clearly trying to destroy the forums. :-(

I'm afraid I don't much imagination at times... At least I just can't
imagine why anyone would get a thrill from doing that... at least for
doing it for more than 10 minutes...

[Neil Jones]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Urbin
... but even with that restriction it would make abuse too easy. You could
just AFK if you saw an overpowered opponent walk towards you *before* battle
started, wait till it's gone and de-AFK safely.

So what? I don't see how it harms me if someone else wants to dilute
their own game experience by using "cheats".

Man, you're really not getting the 'multiplayer' or the 'online' or the
'role-playing' aspects of mmorpgs, are you? This isn't like a
singleplayer game, where it can be paused when convenient, *because*
everything you do in game affects other people. This might be just a
case of drawing a creature away that might have attacked them, or maybe
causing them to take a whole different route simply because you're
there and you're the enemy.

If you could leave the game instantly, or step into some shadow world
where you couldn't be touched, the entire dynamic would change. The
whole game is based on group-managing aggro from opponents.. if anyone
can instantly drop aggro by afk-ing, there'd be no sense of danger, and
no need for any tactics. Just nuke it till it comes towards you, and
then ghost yourself. Even if you weren't actually in combat, the whole
game system would change if everyone had rogue stealth powers...

___
Neil
aka HighVis

[Sprite]

Post by Urbin

Post by Burt Johnson
I don't think players are attacked when they are in that mode, are they?

Good luck trying that out and watching your toon die a painful death ;-)

Post by Burt Johnson
"If I were the designer of this game..." I would have the pause (or AFK
state) turn the player into a virtual ghost. Other players would be able
to see the player sitting with an 'AFK' indictor in the name, but the
person would just disappear relative to any monsters.

Yes, I would like that, too...

Post by Burt Johnson
Perhaps there would be some prohibition against using the pause command
while in battle.

... but even with that restriction it would make abuse too easy. You could
just AFK if you saw an overpowered opponent walk towards you *before* battle
started, wait till it's gone and de-AFK safely.

Or stealth if a druid/rogue.

:)

(Admittedly there will be times when higher level enemies spot you, but it's
far safer to go AFK with stealth).

[Nikolas Landauer]

Post by Sprite
Or stealth if a druid/rogue.

Or a night elf. My usual <AFK> behavior is to Shadowmeld myself, and
Prowl my kitty, after moving up against a tree or rock so I'm less
likely to be walked into.

[bigbangjames]

if u hit /camp it pauses the game trust me

[Simon Nejmann]

Post by Burt Johnson
Guess I will just have to logout, and press 'now you fool!" button.
Why does it want to wait 20 seconds first???

As Steven said, it is so you can't just escape from a fight.
However, if you enter a rest area (inn or faction capital - eg.
Stormwind) you can logout instantly.

You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.


A second bonus is, that while logged out in a rest area you gain "rest
xp" - basically it is a potential bonus to your xp, that you get by
killing mobs.
For example, if you have 480 rest xp and go kill mobs that normally
give you 25 xp to kill, then you are going to get 50 xp per kill -
your combat log is going to say something like:

You gain 50 xp (+25 rest xp)

But of course, as you do this the bonus goes down - after killing 4
mobs and getting 25 bonus xp per kill you would have 380 rest xp left,
and after killing 19 you are going to have 5 rest xp left. The next
two kills are then going to give you 30 and 25 xp respectively, as the
rest xp runs out.

The rest xp is basically an attempt from Blizzards side to try to make
sure that you don't get too far behind by not playing so much - you
can discuss how effective it is, but it defenitly makes it worth
running to the nearest inn before you log out in most cases...


Ps. You can never have more rest xp saved up than 1.5 levels worth,
and you get that after a week of being logged out in a rest area.

[ASKF]

Post by Simon Nejmann

Post by Burt Johnson
Guess I will just have to logout, and press 'now you fool!" button.
Why does it want to wait 20 seconds first???

As Steven said, it is so you can't just escape from a fight.

Wrong, you can't log out while in a fight!

[Taras Bulba]

Post by ASKF

Post by Simon Nejmann

Post by Burt Johnson
Guess I will just have to logout, and press 'now you fool!" button.
Why does it want to wait 20 seconds first???

As Steven said, it is so you can't just escape from a fight.

Wrong, you can't log out while in a fight!

I think that is what he is saying.


TB

[steve.kaye]

Post by ASKF

Post by Simon Nejmann

Post by Burt Johnson
Guess I will just have to logout, and press 'now you fool!" button.
Why does it want to wait 20 seconds first???

As Steven said, it is so you can't just escape from a fight.

Wrong, you can't log out while in a fight!

You ccould escape from a fight that hasn't started yet if it wasn't for
the 20 seconds. If you see a big nasty ganker from the opposite
faction after you then you could /quit out of danger. With the 20
second wait you would probably be attacked before it ran out.

Does anyone know what the exit now button does? Does it leave you in
the game for the 20 seconds but just with the UI closed? Seems silly
to have the 20 second wait if there is a button to completely
circumvent it with no repercussions.

steve.kaye

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Simon Nejmann
You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.

I've seen that, but hadn't correlated that it meant I was in a rest
area. I presume that all rest areas are safe from attack. Correct?

Post by Simon Nejmann
A second bonus is, that while logged out in a rest area you gain "rest
xp" - basically it is a potential bonus to your xp, that you get by
killing mobs.
For example, if you have 480 rest xp and go kill mobs that normally
give you 25 xp to kill, then you are going to get 50 xp per kill -

hmmm? As I read the manual, if rested you get double the experience
points from the kill (not just a specific xp bonus number). That state
is indicated by the blue experience line. Once it goes to purple, no
bonus is given.

When I first read that, I took it as a way for the authors to give an
incentive for you to leave the game and not tie up the servers for 24
hours straight... I read their explanation of not falling behind, but
I'm not sure I buy that...

Post by Simon Nejmann
The rest xp is basically an attempt from Blizzards side to try to make
sure that you don't get too far behind by not playing so much - you
can discuss how effective it is, but it defenitly makes it worth
running to the nearest inn before you log out in most cases...

[steve.kaye]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Simon Nejmann
You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.

I've seen that, but hadn't correlated that it meant I was in a rest
area. I presume that all rest areas are safe from attack. Correct?

I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?

steve.kaye

[Christian Stauffer]

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Simon Nejmann
You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.

I've seen that, but hadn't correlated that it meant I was in a rest
area. I presume that all rest areas are safe from attack. Correct?

In theory: No
Practically: Yes

There is a (theoretic) chance someone pulls a mob into a town. In case
of a normal non elite mob like a boar or a wolf, it'll be slaughtered
by the guards in one hit. In case someone pulled a raid boss to a
town, it can wipe a whole city :-) That's why this such actions will
be punished by blizzard, but in theory it's possible. If you really
care and want to see a funny WoW video, google for "Khazzak does
Stormwind". In this video, someone pulled this raid boss into
stormwind where he basically kills everyone in sight. Blizzard had
to manually take him out of the city, because it was impossible to
defend him.

And as soon as you're PvP flagged, everyone can everywhere attack you.
There's no mechanic keeping enemy players from killing you, even when
you stand in your own auction house. This happened to me once: A mage
made it into orgrimmar AH (no idea how she made it alive) and started
to AoE. I thought "lol, she'll get killed in no time" and didn't even
bother to drop a heal, after 5s she was still AoEing and I was
dead :-)

Having that said, this happens very very rarely, even less on a PvE
server where the chance you are PvP flagged is low anyway.

Post by steve.kaye
I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?

Nope. There's a chance that there's a guard around helping you when
you're attacked, but you can be attacked and killed.

Chris

[chocolatemalt]

Post by Christian Stauffer
There is a (theoretic) chance someone pulls a mob into a town. In case
of a normal non elite mob like a boar or a wolf, it'll be slaughtered
by the guards in one hit. In case someone pulled a raid boss to a
town, it can wipe a whole city :-) That's why this such actions will
be punished by blizzard, but in theory it's possible. If you really
care and want to see a funny WoW video, google for "Khazzak does
Stormwind". In this video, someone pulled this raid boss into
stormwind where he basically kills everyone in sight. Blizzard had
to manually take him out of the city, because it was impossible to
defend him.

Noob question here: How do you train a boss out of an instance, to SW?

On my server we've had Teremus the Devourer (outdoor boss dragon) in SW
a few times, mass-wiping the sub-60 players in the center Trade District
that were brave enough to get close. I think he was trained there (from
the Blasted Lands as I recall)... I'm not aware of a habit he has of
flying there by himself.

[Marshall]

Post by chocolatemalt

Post by Christian Stauffer
There is a (theoretic) chance someone pulls a mob into a town. In case
of a normal non elite mob like a boar or a wolf, it'll be slaughtered
by the guards in one hit. In case someone pulled a raid boss to a
town, it can wipe a whole city :-) That's why this such actions will
be punished by blizzard, but in theory it's possible. If you really
care and want to see a funny WoW video, google for "Khazzak does
Stormwind". In this video, someone pulled this raid boss into
stormwind where he basically kills everyone in sight. Blizzard had
to manually take him out of the city, because it was impossible to
defend him.

Noob question here: How do you train a boss out of an instance, to SW?
On my server we've had Teremus the Devourer (outdoor boss dragon) in SW
a few times, mass-wiping the sub-60 players in the center Trade District
that were brave enough to get close. I think he was trained there (from
the Blasted Lands as I recall)... I'm not aware of a habit he has of
flying there by himself.

It's easily done by a team of high-levels kiting him along- just get him
to chase you, use slowing/dazing skills on him from multiple different
chars to keep him from catching you, and just do enough damage from
range to him to keep him pissed off and chasing you.
-Marshall

[Zil]

Post by chocolatemalt

Post by Christian Stauffer
There is a (theoretic) chance someone pulls a mob into a town. In case
of a normal non elite mob like a boar or a wolf, it'll be slaughtered
by the guards in one hit. In case someone pulled a raid boss to a
town, it can wipe a whole city :-)

Noob question here: How do you train a boss out of an instance, to SW?

You can't pull *any* mobs out of an instance.
Chris was referring to an outdoor raid boss.

[chocolatemalt]

Post by Zil

Post by chocolatemalt

Post by Christian Stauffer
There is a (theoretic) chance someone pulls a mob into a town. In case
of a normal non elite mob like a boar or a wolf, it'll be slaughtered
by the guards in one hit. In case someone pulled a raid boss to a
town, it can wipe a whole city :-)

Noob question here: How do you train a boss out of an instance, to SW?

You can't pull *any* mobs out of an instance.
Chris was referring to an outdoor raid boss.

Yep. My faith in the inviolability of instances is restored. :) Just
after posting my noobness, I thottbotted Kazzak and saw that he was
outdoorsy, a boss I had never seen. I assumed from the name that he was
BWL or something.

[Marshall]

Post by Christian Stauffer

Post by steve.kaye
I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?

Nope. There's a chance that there's a guard around helping you when
you're attacked, but you can be attacked and killed.

I was minding my own business inside the Tarren Mill (horde faction)
inn the other day, just left my lvl 32 char standing there while I went
for coffee or something, and as I was sitting down again, a ?? Alliance
rogue 1-hit ganked me from behind with ambush. This could happen
anywhere in Orgrimmar, Stormwind, you name it- on a PvP server.
But inns in contested areas are of course far more dangerous to trust
yourself as safe in.
-Marshall

[Burt Johnson]

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Simon Nejmann
You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.

I've seen that, but hadn't correlated that it meant I was in a rest
area. I presume that all rest areas are safe from attack. Correct?

I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?

I'm only PvE for now, so that is good enough for me. This environment
is enough of a shock to me that I don't think I'm ready to attempt a PvP
for awhile... :-)

[Marshall]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Simon Nejmann
You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.

I've seen that, but hadn't correlated that it meant I was in a rest
area. I presume that all rest areas are safe from attack. Correct?

I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?

I'm only PvE for now, so that is good enough for me. This environment
is enough of a shock to me that I don't think I'm ready to attempt a PvP
for awhile... :-)

LOL! I started out in PvE, and played it solely for nine months... I
just concentrated on questing, leveling, aquiring items... never did
any BG's or duels, let alone turn on /pvp. Then a couple of months
ago I decided to start some chars on a PvP server- it's a whole new
world. It's definitely a good idea to run a char to 60 on a PvE server
first, so you know what the quests are all about, and how to accom-
plish them under the relatively safe and undisturbed conditions of
PvE.

I thought it was annoying to be frequently harrassed and challenged
to duels by horde chars at Nesingwary's camp in northern STV, when
I was questing in that area on a PvE server... boy howdy, that's
heaven compared to the hell you go through trying to even get *near*
his camp, in PvP. I have several low-30's horde chars on a PvP server,
and when I recently sauntered out of Grom'gol to head on up to the
hunting camp for the first time, my partner and I soon ran afoul of
a party of 4 or 5 level '??' Alliance ganking every lowbie in sight, with
no mercy whatsoever. The next night, we made it to Nesingwary's,
but were killed several times along the way by aggressive teams of
mixed-level (30's and ??) Alliance, actively hunting us for fun (no
honor for ?? chars in killing lowbies) and grief. Finally got to the
camp, got the quests, and were soon set upon and killed again be-
fore we could even escape the camp.

PvP is fun, but it definitely has its challenges, for trying to quest in
the busier contested areas. One thing you'll notice, is that the level
of questing players is significantly higher than it is on PvE servers,
in the same areas. Areas I'd quest in at 30 on PvE, I won't bother
trying to start into until I'm 35+. When you wander into a gank-fest,
you don't want to be the lowest char on the totempole. And of course,
soloing or doing quests in small parties is not very successful. We did
tie in with a group of 5 other 30's chars that was being harrassed by
several ?? Alliance gankers, and even managed to kill several of them
in a big furball, like a huddled cluster of rabbits managing to kill a bear
by sheer numbers ;-)

Get the hang of the game, learn to play it well, then try PvP some-
day when you want a real test.
-Marshall

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Marshall
Get the hang of the game, learn to play it well, then try PvP some-
day when you want a real test.
-Marshall

I'm probably months away from trying PvP, as you mention about when you
started.

I'm curious about one aspect now though -- getting started.

I am assuming that I have to create a new character on a PvP server, and
that there is no way to move an advanced PvE character over into that
world. Is that correct? That is, everyone starts at level 1 in PvP,
and it isn't just a lot of level 60 chars that were first trained in
other environments?

Also, are the towns the same? That is, if I create a dwarf warrior in
PvP, am I going to see IronForge, etc again? Thus, getting the lay of
the land in PvE first would give a player (rather than the character) an
edge?

[p***@yahoo.com]

I'm probably months away from trying PvP, as you mention about when you started

You can do PVP on PVE servers - that is called BattleGrounds. Once
your level 10, I think, you can go to the Warsong Gulch Battleground.
Check the Blizzard site for their writeup on Battlegrounds.

I am assuming that I have to create a new character on a PvP server

Yes. You cannot transfer from a PVE server to a PVP one.

Also, are the towns the same?

World is exactly the same. The big differences are that you cannot
play both Horde and Alliance on the same PVP server. Also, PVP is
harder since after about level 20 you will be leveling in Contested
areas where the other side can attack you at any time. They often don'
"play fair" either - attacking you while you are engaged with a mob or
being 30 levels higher than you. My 34th level gnome warlock has met
?? level Horde (guys at least 10 levels higher than I am) many times -
only once did the Horde not gank me but simply ride on.

[Marshall]

Post by Burt Johnson
I am assuming that I have to create a new character on a PvP server, and
that there is no way to move an advanced PvE character over into that
world. Is that correct?

Yes. But I believe it is possible to transfer a high-level PvP char from
one PvP server to another- I started a PvP player on Spirestone not
long after it came online (a few weeks or maybe a month after), and
was surprised at how many lvl 60's in full godly MC/BWL/ZG gear were
already running around... no friggin way they got that stuff in a month
of playing from scratch. These transfers only happen on occasion though,
when Blizzard decides to allow them between certain servers.

Post by Burt Johnson
That is, everyone starts at level 1 in PvP,
and it isn't just a lot of level 60 chars that were first trained in
other environments?

See above. Even the ones that start from scratch are frequently
players that learned the game on other servers, previously. Not
all chars on newborn servers are newbies.

Post by Burt Johnson
Also, are the towns the same? That is, if I create a dwarf warrior in
PvP, am I going to see IronForge, etc again? Thus, getting the lay of
the land in PvE first would give a player (rather than the character) an
edge?

World is the same, whether PvP or PvE. Only difference is the free-fire
nature of horde-alliance interaction, in contested zones. In areas con-
trolled by your faction (low-level areas), you are immune from attack
by the other side unless you deliberately decide to turn on /pvp mode,
or manually attack one of them first.
-Marshall

[m***@evins.net]

Post by Marshall

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Simon Nejmann
You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.

I've seen that, but hadn't correlated that it meant I was in a rest
area. I presume that all rest areas are safe from attack. Correct?

I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?

I'm only PvE for now, so that is good enough for me. This environment
is enough of a shock to me that I don't think I'm ready to attempt a PvP
for awhile... :-)

LOL! I started out in PvE, and played it solely for nine months... I
just concentrated on questing, leveling, aquiring items... never did
any BG's or duels, let alone turn on /pvp. Then a couple of months
ago I decided to start some chars on a PvP server- it's a whole new
world. It's definitely a good idea to run a char to 60 on a PvE server
first, so you know what the quests are all about, and how to accom-
plish them under the relatively safe and undisturbed conditions of
PvE.
I thought it was annoying to be frequently harrassed and challenged
to duels by horde chars at Nesingwary's camp in northern STV, when
I was questing in that area on a PvE server... boy howdy, that's
heaven compared to the hell you go through trying to even get *near*
his camp, in PvP. I have several low-30's horde chars on a PvP server,
and when I recently sauntered out of Grom'gol to head on up to the
hunting camp for the first time, my partner and I soon ran afoul of
a party of 4 or 5 level '??' Alliance ganking every lowbie in sight, with
no mercy whatsoever. The next night, we made it to Nesingwary's,
but were killed several times along the way by aggressive teams of
mixed-level (30's and ??) Alliance, actively hunting us for fun (no
honor for ?? chars in killing lowbies) and grief. Finally got to the
camp, got the quests, and were soon set upon and killed again be-
fore we could even escape the camp.
PvP is fun, but it definitely has its challenges, for trying to quest in
the busier contested areas. One thing you'll notice, is that the level
of questing players is significantly higher than it is on PvE servers,
in the same areas. Areas I'd quest in at 30 on PvE, I won't bother
trying to start into until I'm 35+. When you wander into a gank-fest,
you don't want to be the lowest char on the totempole. And of course,
soloing or doing quests in small parties is not very successful. We did
tie in with a group of 5 other 30's chars that was being harrassed by
several ?? Alliance gankers, and even managed to kill several of them
in a big furball, like a huddled cluster of rabbits managing to kill a bear
by sheer numbers ;-)
Get the hang of the game, learn to play it well, then try PvP some-
day when you want a real test.

Welcome to the other side. :-) I went through that same transition
about last April.

At one point, after being the victim of a particularly merciless series
of horribly lopsided ganks, I logged onto my old PVE server, where my
level 60 could trundle around happily wherever he wanted without fear
of gankage, because it was a PVE server.

In ten minutes I was bored. The suspense was gone.

No matter how bad it gets on the PVP server I call home (and it gets
pretty bad sometimes) I no longer have any impulse to go back to PVE,
except to visit friends I made when I was leveling up the first time.
Once you have adapted to the constant danger of a PVP server, PVE is
just too easy to be fun.

Now, before you have adapted to it, PVP is probably just too *hard* to
be fun. :-) I think the idea of leveling up to 60 before trying PVP
might be a good one. It's hard enough getting used to random strangers
killing you over and over, and dancing on your corpse, and laughing
about it, and using toon animations to simulate....er...rude acts on
it, after you have already leveled up to 60 and know the game pretty
well. I don't think it would help the game experience to have all that
happening while you're trying to learn the basic controls. :-)

[Lowky]

Post by steve.kaye

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Simon Nejmann
You can tell that you are in a rest area by looking at the level
indicator on your character portrait - it changes to a "Zzz" icon if
you are in a rest area.

I've seen that, but hadn't correlated that it meant I was in a rest
area. I presume that all rest areas are safe from attack. Correct?

I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?
steve.kaye

I don't know about neutral inns perse but at least on pve servers in
neutral towns like Gadgetzan, if you are pvping you will aggro the
guards into attacking.

[pv+ (Paul Vader)]

Post by Lowky
I don't know about neutral inns perse but at least on pve servers in
neutral towns like Gadgetzan, if you are pvping you will aggro the
guards into attacking.

I was wondering about this. I have a character who is friendly at all of
the neutral towns (the townspeople are all green instead of yellow now),
does this mean I'm less likely to get beaten down if combat breaks out? It
used to be, if I even helped another character (such as healing or buffing
them) the bruisers would pound on me. I haven't tried it since my
relationships improved. *

[pv+ (Paul Vader)]

Post by steve.kaye
I'm not so sure. On a PvE server it is correct. What about a PvP
server in a neutral inn? Do inns have some logic in them preventing a
player attacking you?

Absolutely not. In Ratchet and Booty bay, you can most certainly get into
combat while in the inn. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case in
all contested areas.

That said, in an inn you can disconnect immediately and be sure you
character disappeared too. Anywhere else, if you bypass the 20 seconds, as
far as the server is concerned, you're still there until the time runs out. *

[Urbin]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Urbin

Post by Burt Johnson
Perhaps there would be some prohibition against using the pause
command while in battle.

... but even with that restriction it would make abuse too easy. You
could just AFK if you saw an overpowered opponent walk towards you
*before* battle started, wait till it's gone and de-AFK safely.

So what? I don't see how it harms me if someone else wants to dilute
their own game experience by using "cheats".

On a PvP server this would certainly "harm" the nasty ganker who wanted to
attack you :-)

On a PvE (player versus environment, you asked elsethread whether it was
PvC) server this may be less of an issue. It seems that you mainly play for
your own fun, not putting much weight on the comparison with other chars.
Good for you (that may change yet :-) and I pretty much play that way as
well.

However, quite a few people invest a lot of their time and energy to aquire
certain items, that are tough to get. If by not dying through AFKing certain
players would cheat, that would lead to smaller repair-bills for them,
giving them an edge over other players. They may be able to afford an item
from the AH that you are just those few coppers short. Or they may just have
better gear than you.

Not a big deal to you. Not a big deal to me (at least not the second case
:-) but I can see how some people do care and I think it is fair enough for
Blizzard to adding this "fairness" system, even if in some - negligible -
cases it means some discomfort for me.

There are a lot of small decisions like this in the game, making it
balanced. There are many instances where they could have implemented it
differently. Some people would have preferred it the other way, some prefer
it the way it is done (again, look up the BoP item thread by RogerM for an
example). All in all I think they managed to pretty much make the right
decisions.

Urbin, who is quite happy with the way things are designed

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Urbin
However, quite a few people invest a lot of their time and energy to aquire
certain items, that are tough to get. If by not dying through AFKing certain
players would cheat, that would lead to smaller repair-bills for them,
giving them an edge over other players. They may be able to afford an item
from the AH that you are just those few coppers short. Or they may just have
better gear than you.

It seems to me that people that are going to do that will go to those
sites I've seen advertised that will sell WoW gold for US $ and get the
extra money that way.

When I have played solo (not online) games in the past, I often look for
ways to 'cheat' in a sense. I like to think like the programmer, then
like the QA, and figure out holes they missed. Most games have things
like that. I generally ignore the "cheat commands" that are published
everywhere, and find little tricks here and there. Half my fun of
playing is in finding them.

My nephew saw me playing Heroes of Might & Magic III a couple years ago
and said I was cheating. I said I was just using the bugs in the
program to my advantage. (He was 10 at the time, and now at 12 is
starting to write his own Java programs) The definition of cheat is
somewhat amorphous. :-)

Post by Urbin
There are a lot of small decisions like this in the game, making it
balanced. There are many instances where they could have implemented it
differently. Some people would have preferred it the other way, some prefer
it the way it is done (again, look up the BoP item thread by RogerM for an
example). All in all I think they managed to pretty much make the right
decisions.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the balance. I am mostly trying to
get up to speed with this whole concept of massive multi-whatever games.
I have never played online, nor real-time, nor multi-user games in the
past. This is quite a jolt from the turn-based single player games I
have used for the past 35 years (board and dungeon-master D&D back
then).

Yeah, I've got a few grey hairs. Sometimes I think they have started
multiplying in the past 4 days since I started playing WoW... :-)

[Blayde]

Post by Burt Johnson
I was kinda hoping someone would say "type AFK" to pause or some such.
Guess I will just have to logout, and press 'now you fool!" button.
Why does it want to wait 20 seconds first???

Warning! If you go to exit game and hit the 'now you fool!' button, the
game client shuts down but your character is STILL going to sit there
for the next twenty seconds before disappearing. If you do it in a spot
where you can get the everloving crap beaten out of you in twenty
seconds, you may come back to a dead character.

- Blayde

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Blayde

Post by Burt Johnson
I was kinda hoping someone would say "type AFK" to pause or some such.
Guess I will just have to logout, and press 'now you fool!" button.
Why does it want to wait 20 seconds first???

Warning! If you go to exit game and hit the 'now you fool!' button, the
game client shuts down but your character is STILL going to sit there
for the next twenty seconds before disappearing. If you do it in a spot
where you can get the everloving crap beaten out of you in twenty

Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for the warning!

So far I have only done the exit where I felt I was safe (around camps
with vendors, etc), but it would have been a shock if I tried it in an
open field and came back a ghost... :-)

[Christian Stauffer]

Post by Burt Johnson
I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(
Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?

I like the idea to press a button and the other 5000 players on my
server freeze and have to wait until I decide to resume the game.
Or how would you expect it to be when you pause the game?

To avoid being killed while away from keyboard, move to a safe
spot. In general, you are quite on mountains (don't know about
the alliance, but in the barrens there are tons of mountains),
and to a certain degree also on streets. If you can stealth or
shadowmeld, do it. That's the only alternative to log out..

Chris

[Jonny Barr]

Do not answer the phone.

Do not get up.

Play Warcraft.

Now sit back down!

[<kotos>]

Post by Jonny Barr
Do not answer the phone.
Do not get up.
Play Warcraft.
Now sit back down!

WoW is life. You cannot pause your life :)

[Burt Johnson]

Post by <kotos>

Post by Jonny Barr
Do not answer the phone.
Do not get up.
Play Warcraft.
Now sit back down!

WoW is life. You cannot pause your life :)

GOD, I am beginning to think that is true! :-)

I am used to player turn based games like Might & Magic III (I hated 4
and removed it from my drive after a couple days). This
real-time-allp-the-time is taking a bit of getting used to...

[Lowky]

Post by <kotos>

Post by Jonny Barr
Do not answer the phone.
Do not get up.
Play Warcraft.
Now sit back down!

WoW is life. You cannot pause your life :)

In fact what are you doing posting here, you should be playing WoW

[Urbin]

Post by Lowky

Post by <kotos>

Post by Jonny Barr
Do not answer the phone.
Do not get up.
Play Warcraft.
Now sit back down!

WoW is life. You cannot pause your life :)

In fact what are you doing posting here, you should be playing WoW

It's called work. They won't let me play wow here but I can get away with
reading the news without anyone noticing :)

But I agree, I should be at home playing WoW (module patch day of course).

Cheers
Urbin

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Christian Stauffer

Post by Burt Johnson
I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(
Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?

I like the idea to press a button and the other 5000 players on my
server freeze and have to wait until I decide to resume the game.
Or how would you expect it to be when you pause the game?

I would expect that I enter "AFK" status and am essentially out of the
game. I see no need to impact anyone else, other than perhaps those that
I was in a party with, and they should just get the notice that I am
"Away from keyboard"

Despite what some people may think... this is a GAME. I should be able
to pause it to do things called LIFE.

Post by Christian Stauffer
To avoid being killed while away from keyboard, move to a safe
spot. In general, you are quite on mountains (don't know about
the alliance, but in the barrens there are tons of mountains),
and to a certain degree also on streets. If you can stealth or
shadowmeld, do it. That's the only alternative to log out..

The point is that these are unexpected (phone call) or brief (going to
the fridge) situations.

Sorry, but I consider lack of a 'pause me' command to be a bug. At the
very least, a lack of needed feature.

fwiw, I am a programmer by profession.

[Christian Stauffer]

Post by Burt Johnson
I would expect that I enter "AFK" status and am essentially out of the
game.

Then you are talking about logging out, not about pausing the game.

Post by Burt Johnson
I see no need to impact anyone else, other than perhaps those that
I was in a party with, and they should just get the notice that I am
"Away from keyboard"
Despite what some people may think... this is a GAME.

I hope you didn't just tell me I'm a nerd and I don't have a life?

Post by Burt Johnson
I should be able
to pause it to do things called LIFE.

You can always log out. Why it can't happen instangtly but
with a 20s delay has been explained in another post.

And if LIFE is so important, you can just run away to the ringing
phone. A dead character isn't the end of the world. I did that
multiple times.

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Christian Stauffer
To avoid being killed while away from keyboard, move to a safe
spot. In general, you are quite on mountains (don't know about
the alliance, but in the barrens there are tons of mountains),
and to a certain degree also on streets. If you can stealth or
shadowmeld, do it. That's the only alternative to log out..

The point is that these are unexpected (phone call)

That's clear.

Post by Burt Johnson
or brief (going to the fridge) situations.

There shouldn't be a problem to spend 10s finding a save spot when
you want to go to the fridge.

Post by Burt Johnson
Sorry, but I consider lack of a 'pause me' command to be a bug. At the
very least, a lack of needed feature.
fwiw, I am a programmer by profession.

Then you should know that pausing a system means freezing it as a
whole. What you are describing is basically logging out, which is
perfectly possible.
What you seem to miss is a method to log out immediately without
really logging out (still receiving whispers and people see you
as afk), which is not possible (and hopefully never will be).
Either you're there, or you're not.

Chris (FYI: me too)

[Urs Steiner]

Hi

Post by Burt Johnson
I would expect that I enter "AFK" status and am essentially out of the
game. I see no need to impact anyone else, other than perhaps those that
I was in a party with, and they should just get the notice that I am
"Away from keyboard"

and on a PVP server this would affect people trying to kill you. Or with
this might also enable you to keep a rare spawn beast from disappearing
or something

Post by Burt Johnson
Despite what some people may think... this is a GAME. I should be able
to pause it to do things called LIFE.

this is a real time game. it's the same as with life. I should be able
to pause life to do things like games.

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Christian Stauffer
To avoid being killed while away from keyboard, move to a safe
spot. In general, you are quite on mountains (don't know about
the alliance, but in the barrens there are tons of mountains),
and to a certain degree also on streets. If you can stealth or
shadowmeld, do it. That's the only alternative to log out..

The point is that these are unexpected (phone call) or brief (going to
the fridge) situations.

Phone calls are tricky, but you could get a head set for the phone. Or
you can walk ingame to a safe place in 10s and take off the phone then.
If you see the number of the caller, you can call them back. Or take it
and ask them if you can call back in 5mins.

I sometimes have to take phone calls while playing. With a headset I
usually can handle all non-urgent calls. For urgent calls, I usually ask
if they can wait 20s, in that time it's pretty easy to find a safe spot.
Or you can just die, it's not the end of your char.

Going to the fridge shouldn't be a problem, because you can walk to a
more or less safe place first.

Post by Burt Johnson
Sorry, but I consider lack of a 'pause me' command to be a bug. At the
very least, a lack of needed feature.
fwiw, I am a programmer by profession.

well, so are many others here including me ...

tell me one real time online game where you can pause your character?
Like Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, or an MMORPG like SWG, etc...

Urs

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Urs Steiner
this is a real time game. it's the same as with life. I should be able
to pause life to do things like games.

Now THAT is what I want for my birthday next month! A pause button for
life. Yeah, I could sure use that at times! :-)

Post by Urs Steiner
Phone calls are tricky, but you could get a head set for the phone. Or
you can walk ingame to a safe place in 10s and take off the phone then.
If you see the number of the caller, you can call them back. Or take it
and ask them if you can call back in 5mins.

This was a client calling. I can't very well tell them I am playing a
game and stop bugging me... :-)

And yes, I have a hands-free headset. I frequently am walking through
code while talking to a programmer or client at the other end of the
country.

I have 3 systems on a KVM. This client's code was on a different
machine than the game. I switched over to discuss the issue. Came back
surprised to see that my perfectly healthy fighter had 30 seconds till
his spirit would be released...

Post by Urs Steiner
tell me one real time online game where you can pause your character?
Like Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, or an MMORPG like SWG, etc...

I've never played an online game before, nor a real-time game before.
Up till this past weekend, I have always played turn-based games like
Heroes of Might & Magic and their ilk.

Just learning the ropes, limitaions and capabilities of the system, as
well as trying to understand the rationale for them.

[Taras Bulba]

Post by Burt Johnson
Sorry, but I consider lack of a 'pause me' command to be a bug. At the
very least, a lack of needed feature.

That might be because you have a lack of experience in these sorts of
games.

Think of the implications of a pause.... and how it could be exploited
by unscrupulous players.

Not only is it not a bug, it is an essential feature.

There is a mod that will let you fight back if attacked. The default is
just to stand while some mob whacks away at you. Even though it won't
cast spells or special attacks, it at least gives you some chance of
winning a fight.

Post by Burt Johnson
fwiw, I am a programmer by profession.

Then you would know how trivial it would be to implement an instant
log-off. The delay is there for a reason. you really wouldn't want it
any other way.



TB

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Taras Bulba
Think of the implications of a pause.... and how it could be exploited
by unscrupulous players.

OK, that is another question I have... who cares if some players are
unscrupulous??

I am not playing PvP, where I can see it could ruin the game.

In PvC (is that the right term for player-vs-computer?), I don't really
care if someone else is turning into a rich sherman tank and winning his
battles by cheating. Any more than I care if someone cheats when
playing solitare.

[steve.kaye]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Taras Bulba
Think of the implications of a pause.... and how it could be exploited
by unscrupulous players.

OK, that is another question I have... who cares if some players are
unscrupulous??
I am not playing PvP, where I can see it could ruin the game.
In PvC (is that the right term for player-vs-computer?),

It's known as PvE - player versus environment.

Post by Burt Johnson
I don't really
care if someone else is turning into a rich sherman tank and winning his
battles by cheating. Any more than I care if someone cheats when
playing solitare.

It's not quite the same as solitaire because other people's cheating
can affect you to some degree. If they are cheating by using an
exploit to keep a rare spawn for themselves it means you can't have it.
If they are cheating and getting loads of top notch weapons and armour
for their warrior then it means that they will be a better tank than
your warrior (assuming equal player ability) and that you may not be
able to get in a group because they got the tank spot.

Those are both made up situations but the theory is good IMO.

steve.kaye

[JFlexer]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Taras Bulba
Think of the implications of a pause.... and how it could be exploited
by unscrupulous players.

OK, that is another question I have... who cares if some players are
unscrupulous??
I am not playing PvP, where I can see it could ruin the game.

Take, for example, what happened on EQ.

Huge player base - lots of exploits... players discover the exploit and
flood the servers with plat causing huge inflation of prices. Even though
I'm a casual player and avoid the "cheat" - I am still faced with the
consequences of a massively inflated in-game economy and I can't afford any
appropriate weapons/armor/spell upgrade.

The in-game ecomony is so flooded (in EQ we called it "mudflation" that the
only way to stay competitive is to buy plat from Yantis... cause there's no
other way to get it in game without participating in the exploits. (Of
course, Yantis has tons of plat to sell BECAUSE of the exploits)

AND, I can't even get my epic weapon, cause it is not considered 'trash' -
uber gear is flooding the EQ version of the Auction House - and my epic
isn't even adequate.

Meanwhile, those who *DO* participate, overscale their equipment and become
"super twinks" relative to me. Being "super twink" becomes standard and I
can't get groups because I'm viewed as inadequate. Newbies join, and think
that this is the norm, and participate without question.

EQ is so driven to provide new content for these "uber players" (gotta keep
the revenue intact) that they no longer pay attention to the core game - and
quest that are broken remain broken for years. Lag issues in zones ignored
so they can get the next expansion live... etc... mid level players
(40-60) are disenfranchised and they either join in the mudflation and
exploit grind, or they leave and play WoW... (LOL!)

Thus, EQ now sucks for me - even tho I worked my way to level 70 without
being PL'd or twinked inordinately...

Post by Burt Johnson
In PvC (is that the right term for player-vs-computer?), I don't really
care if someone else is turning into a rich sherman tank and winning his
battles by cheating. Any more than I care if someone cheats when
playing solitare.

yeah, but in solitaire, only the player is in the environment and only the
player is affected. in mmorpg - indirectly, EVERYONE is affected.


-J

[Burt Johnson]

What is EQ? Beside that issue of not knowing EQ, I think I understand
the point you are making though. Thanks for the explanation. I am just
starting to get an inkiing of the economy (up till last night I only
traded with vendors. I placed my first AH items up for sale last night.
I don't have enough cash to bid on anything useful though)

Post by JFlexer
Take, for example, what happened on EQ.
Huge player base - lots of exploits... players discover the exploit and
flood the servers with plat causing huge inflation of prices. Even though
I'm a casual player and avoid the "cheat" - I am still faced with the
consequences of a massively inflated in-game economy and I can't afford any
appropriate weapons/armor/spell upgrade.
The in-game ecomony is so flooded (in EQ we called it "mudflation" that the
only way to stay competitive is to buy plat from Yantis... cause there's no
other way to get it in game without participating in the exploits. (Of
course, Yantis has tons of plat to sell BECAUSE of the exploits)
AND, I can't even get my epic weapon, cause it is not considered 'trash' -
uber gear is flooding the EQ version of the Auction House - and my epic
isn't even adequate.
Meanwhile, those who *DO* participate, overscale their equipment and become
"super twinks" relative to me. Being "super twink" becomes standard and I
can't get groups because I'm viewed as inadequate. Newbies join, and think
that this is the norm, and participate without question.
EQ is so driven to provide new content for these "uber players" (gotta keep
the revenue intact) that they no longer pay attention to the core game - and
quest that are broken remain broken for years. Lag issues in zones ignored
so they can get the next expansion live... etc... mid level players
(40-60) are disenfranchised and they either join in the mudflation and
exploit grind, or they leave and play WoW... (LOL!)
Thus, EQ now sucks for me - even tho I worked my way to level 70 without
being PL'd or twinked inordinately...

Post by Burt Johnson
In PvC (is that the right term for player-vs-computer?), I don't really
care if someone else is turning into a rich sherman tank and winning his
battles by cheating. Any more than I care if someone cheats when
playing solitare.

yeah, but in solitaire, only the player is in the environment and only the
player is affected. in mmorpg - indirectly, EVERYONE is affected.
-J

[Marshall]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Taras Bulba
Think of the implications of a pause.... and how it could be exploited
by unscrupulous players.

OK, that is another question I have... who cares if some players are
unscrupulous??
I am not playing PvP, where I can see it could ruin the game.
In PvC (is that the right term for player-vs-computer?), I don't really
care if someone else is turning into a rich sherman tank and winning his
battles by cheating. Any more than I care if someone cheats when
playing solitare.

As already mentioned, WoW is not solitaire... other players actions
do indeed have an impact on the gaming experience for everybody
else in the game. The cheats in WoW have so far been mostly in the
form of minor bugs getting exploited by a few, and getting fixed (I'm
not aware of any major exploits still unfixed, but I don't follow that
stuff much). Gold farming and selling for real-life $$ is another form
of cheating that is against the EULA agreed to by all who play the game,
but it is not a game-killing evil (yet, anyway), annoying as aggressive
farmers may sometimes be.

What can happen to a MMOG when virulent cheats get a foothold
on the servers, is not a pretty thing. I played Diablo 2 for several
years, extensive cheating and bug exploitation on battlenet destroy-
ed the game, for me. Duping of items, everybody running around
with duped godly weapons and equipment, exorbitant prices for good
items that were out of the reach of all but other cheaters/dupers, cheats
(or bad game design) that allowed others to hostile and harrass you
against your will at their pleasure anywhere in the game, and kill you
easily with other cheats and exploits... it wasn't pretty, trust me.

Blizzard has done a pretty good job of keeping that disastrous level
of cheating out of WoW, to their credit- but don't ever think that
cheating in a massive online game has no adverse affects on other
players- it just isn't true. 'Minor' cheats that don't appear to imme-
diately have any adverse affect on you directly, are like seeing a
lone cockroach in the middle of your kitchen floor... no biggie,
right? It's just a lone bug... LOL!
-Marshall

[Taras Bulba]

Post by Burt Johnson

Post by Taras Bulba
Think of the implications of a pause.... and how it could be exploited
by unscrupulous players.

OK, that is another question I have... who cares if some players are
unscrupulous??

Who?... is easy.

Most people on this newsgroup aren't keen on unscrupulousness. Neither
is anyone who plays the game, and believes that unscrupulousness is not
a desirable quality. Blizzard don't seem too keen on it either, though
they do give out mixed signals.

Why they care... is a bit harder.

Post by Burt Johnson
I am not playing PvP, where I can see it could ruin the game.

Ok. You can see the problem in PvP.

Post by Burt Johnson
In PvC (is that the right term for player-vs-computer?), I don't really
care if someone else is turning into a rich sherman tank and winning his
battles by cheating. Any more than I care if someone cheats when
playing solitare.

A good point.

In a sense, no matter what sort of server you are playing on, all of
Warcraft is PvP. You are competing against other players for resources.
There is an expectation, that there will be a level playing field. And
this expectation is quite reasonable. Warcraft, and other MMORPGs, are
more than just computer games, they are also economies and societies.
In Warcraft's case, the economy is bigger than the economy of some
nations. The gold you make, the items you craft and loot, your whole
account, is worth real-life money.

And, as in real life, cheats are usually reviled by that part of
society that doesn't cheat.


TB

[Thomas J. Boschloo]

Post by Burt Johnson
I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(
Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?

I have two more options you could try.

As a hunter, try to feign dead. Thottbot says you need to be back in six
minutes.

Sometimes people get disconnected for a while. You might want to try
pulling the UTP cable from the back of your computer and see what
happens :-) If I do this my computer needs a reboot.

You could also try [alt][tab], not sure what that would do to the game
world. You would probably still get killed (but not hear the sounds of
the game anymore).

And then there is an option a friend told me do to. Get a phone next to
your computer or even a headset!

hth,
Thomas

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Thomas J. Boschloo
And then there is an option a friend told me do to. Get a phone next to
your computer or even a headset!

I do. My phone is right here on a hands-free set.

However, when a client calls, I have to switch apps or (in this
particular case) switch computers. I have several on a KVM. Pressed the
button and switched to the computer for this client's work, and
proceeded to talk to him about it.

When he hung up, I used the KVM to get back to the Mac I am playing WoW
on, only to discover my spirit would be released in 30 seconds, and he
was healthy as an ox when I left him... :-(

[Urbin]

Post by Thomas J. Boschloo

Post by Burt Johnson
I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(
Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?

As a hunter, try to feign dead. Thottbot says you need to be back in six
minutes.

My Tooltip says that, too :-)

Post by Thomas J. Boschloo
Sometimes people get disconnected for a while. You might want to try
pulling the UTP cable from the back of your computer and see what
happens :-)

Nasty trick :-) and worthless

Post by Thomas J. Boschloo
If I do this my computer needs a reboot.

Mine doesn't, but I have to log in again, because WoW reports 'loss of
server connection'. So while this may log you out without the 20s wait, it
won't spare you the relogging. And I am not sure whether your char will
remain online for 20s despite your immediate disconnect.

Post by Thomas J. Boschloo
You could also try [alt][tab], not sure what that would do to the game
world. You would probably still get killed (but not hear the sounds of
the game anymore).

Exactly. Silent death :)

Post by Thomas J. Boschloo
And then there is an option a friend told me do to. Get a phone next to
your computer or even a headset!

I have a phone next to the computer. But first of all, holding the phone
impairs my playing and my 'phoning', people tend to notice I am not very
attentive. Plus getting a headset for the phone would clash wiht my headset
for WoW. Not having a WoW headset would clash with the girlfriend - and
there are already enough WoW/girlfriend clashes without the sound :-/

Cheers
Urbin, who so far gets away with playing WoW

[Simon Nejmann]

Post by Urbin

Post by Thomas J. Boschloo
Sometimes people get disconnected for a while. You might want to try
pulling the UTP cable from the back of your computer and see what
happens :-)

Mine doesn't, but I have to log in again, because WoW reports 'loss of
server connection'. So while this may log you out without the 20s wait, it
won't spare you the relogging. And I am not sure whether your char will
remain online for 20s despite your immediate disconnect.

Actually, if you lose connection and log in immediatly after, you
start getting "that character is already in the world" errors.

Some people have actually experienced dropping out on one character,
then logging in on another one and seeing the first one standing there
until the server figured out that he had dropped connection and
removed the first character from the world.

Using exit or any other client crashing fun will leave your character
completely defenceless in the world for up to about a minute.

[Christian Stauffer]

Post by Simon Nejmann
Actually, if you lose connection and log in immediatly after, you
start getting "that character is already in the world" errors.
Some people have actually experienced dropping out on one character,
then logging in on another one and seeing the first one standing there
until the server figured out that he had dropped connection and
removed the first character from the world.

There's a screenshot in my "my wow life" thread where I'm logged in
with my hunter alt, doing a "/who wildcard" :o)

Post by Simon Nejmann
Using exit or any other client crashing fun will leave your character
completely defenceless in the world for up to about a minute.

Exactly. You can see this behaviour when someone in your party/raid
is disconnected (which everyone at 60 should've already seen) - The
character remains in the game a while (and can be harmed) until he
gets removed.
Unplugging the network cable or killing the WoW process is the same
thing as an ordinary disconnect.

Chris

[Mathew]

if you wanna log out quickly and make your character exit instantly even if
in combat just type \n
this will force you to disconnect even mid fight.

someone who is a better programmer then me could prolly explain the reason
behind this but yeah its like a end of character that causes an exit or some
crap.

i have a macro for \n so when someone tries to jump me i can log instantly
which always pisses people off :)

Post by Burt Johnson
I was playing WoW a bit ago. The phone rang. No monsters were around,
so I turned my back and took care of it. When I returned to the game, I
was lying dead... :-(
Is there a quick way to pause the game other than logging out or
quitting?
--
- Burt Johnson
MindStorm, Inc.
http://www.mindstorm-inc.com/software.html

[Burt Johnson]

Post by Mathew
if you wanna log out quickly and make your character exit instantly even if
in combat just type \n
this will force you to disconnect even mid fight.
someone who is a better programmer then me could prolly explain the reason
behind this but yeah its like a end of character that causes an exit or some
crap.
i have a macro for \n so when someone tries to jump me i can log instantly
which always pisses people off :)

WoW! (pun intended...) I gotta try that one tonight. :-)

[pv+ (Paul Vader)]

Post by Mathew
i have a macro for \n so when someone tries to jump me i can log instantly
which always pisses people off :)

Does it really make your character disappear, or is it like the 'exit now'
button where the client disconnects, but on the server your character is
sitting there like a puppet with it's strings cut? If the former, this
sounds dangerously like an exploit. *

[Mista Fadedglory]

God, I thought that this was a joke thread... ugg. depressing that
it's real...