LFR nerfed...

Post by Catriona R
Had it been like this from the start, it would've been no problem, but
we've had two years of LFR getting lower ilvl versions of regular raid
gear, to take that away now is harsh. The ugly LFR "sets" just add
insult to injury as well, everyone's going to transmog away from
those! I can see where the devs are coming from, but it's far too late
for this change to not seriously piss off a large number of people,
I'll be interested to see if it actually survives to release without a
few changes.

Well. As long as people survive in pve battles (questing, minibosses
etc) and actually they have a feeling of being overwhelming I guess they
really dont care much about gear and raids. So it all depends on how
the Blizzard crew tunes the pve environment according to gear.
When that is said. I have stopped following rumors and news about the
next major patch or expansion years ago anyway. Its subject to change
anyway at any time everytime Blizzard digs further down in the ground.

But the scalable raids sounds promising. I just hope they will do the
scaling better than in today's flex raids where bosses makes a major
step up in health and overall damage between 12 and 13 player raids and
in 18 and 19 player raids. I guess we will see lots of 12, 18 and 25
man raids if they dont fix the scaling part which will make the scaling
more or less obsolete.
The flexible raid sizes will also require lots of players with some
offspec as it does now if you have an inexperienced or low-geared raid.
Boomkin/resto druid, ele/resto shammy and shadow priests/healer
priests are 3x2 specs that - roughly said - can go with the same set of
gear no matter the role while dps/tanks still will require 2 sets of
gear when it comes to monks, warriors, paladins and DKs. But again.
Tank roles seems to be revised heavily in WoD so maybe those will only
need one set of gear for dps/tank roles. Only blizzard knows. :)

--
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Catriona R

2014-04-30 23:59:52 UTC

Well. As long as people survive in pve battles (questing, minibosses
etc) and actually they have a feeling of being overwhelming I guess they
really dont care much about gear and raids.

Common misconception, mainly used by those who are hardcore raiders
when arguing why the rest shouldn't get anything. Character
progression is a big part of the game to *everyone*, not just raiders,
and having been able to work towards setbonuses, and get nice looks on
our gear while playing the way which suits those of us who prefer LFR
for the last two years, it's not too nice to have that taken away now.
You perhaps haven't seen the graphics on the LFR "sets"
(http://wowhead.com/news=236594/warlords-of-draenor-transmog-preview-3d-armor-sets),
but they're hideous imo, it's like greens, I will certainly be
transmogging them away, quite possibly to the crafted or even dungeon
sets, both of which are much nicer! Sure, not everyone cares about
looks, but I know a good number do. And I think *everyone* likes to
get good gear, I don't see the point in total removal of bonuses,
maybe just make them exclusive to LFR and a bit lower effect (ie,
normal raiders can't mix in LFR gear for the bonus), would solve the
problem in a way that won't upset half the playerbase.

Post by Peter T.
So it all depends on how
the Blizzard crew tunes the pve environment according to gear.
When that is said. I have stopped following rumors and news about the
next major patch or expansion years ago anyway. Its subject to change
anyway at any time everytime Blizzard digs further down in the ground.

True enough, but when they make detailed announcements, it's fairly
likely to happen, assuming they haven't (again) underestimated just
how many people they're annoying...

Post by Peter T.
But the scalable raids sounds promising. I just hope they will do the
scaling better than in today's flex raids where bosses makes a major
step up in health and overall damage between 12 and 13 player raids and
in 18 and 19 player raids. I guess we will see lots of 12, 18 and 25
man raids if they dont fix the scaling part which will make the scaling
more or less obsolete.

I think it should work out alright, the major issue recently I believe
is with boss mechanics that abruptly jump from hitting 2 people to 3
or whatever, and everything like that is being changed for 6.0 so it
hits say, 2 people with a 30% chance to hit a 3rd, that kinda thing.
Was properly explained by one of the devs a while back, I'm rather
less good at explaining hazy memories :-)

Post by Peter T.
The flexible raid sizes will also require lots of players with some
offspec as it does now if you have an inexperienced or low-geared raid.
Boomkin/resto druid, ele/resto shammy and shadow priests/healer
priests are 3x2 specs that - roughly said - can go with the same set of
gear no matter the role while dps/tanks still will require 2 sets of
gear when it comes to monks, warriors, paladins and DKs. But again.
Tank roles seems to be revised heavily in WoD so maybe those will only
need one set of gear for dps/tank roles. Only blizzard knows. :)

Gearing is changing bigtime, so that changes a lot of what you say
above ;-) Gear has a main stat that changes with your spec now, so you
can have holy/ret pallies, ele/enh shaman etc with one set of gear, so
long as you're not too picky about crit/haste/mastery preferences
between specs. Only exceptions are spirit for healers and armor for
tanks, which are useless to other specs - those are only found on
jewellry now though, so just a few spare items to carry around rather
than a full set. Of course min-maxers will still carry full sets
around but normal folk will have 4-5 spare pieces max, by the sounds
of it :-)

Peter T.

2014-05-01 08:49:48 UTC

Post by Peter T.
Well. As long as people survive in pve battles (questing, minibosses
etc) and actually they have a feeling of being overwhelming I guess they
really dont care much about gear and raids.

Common misconception, mainly used by those who are hardcore raiders
when arguing why the rest shouldn't get anything. Character

I'm not a hardcore raider. I'm in a non-HC guild with a very laid back
atmosphere and some of us finally killed Garrosh on normal a few weeks
ago 7-8(!) months after 5.4 was released. :)
I look at my guild's members where many of them are fine with just
killing a rare, doing a hc scen and a LFR now and then. Most of them
dont even sign up for our guild's weekly flex run where some of us uses
our well-geared mains for carrying them through the bosses so they can
get even better gear!

Post by Catriona R
progression is a big part of the game to *everyone*, not just raiders,
and having been able to work towards setbonuses, and get nice looks on
our gear while playing the way which suits those of us who prefer LFR
for the last two years, it's not too nice to have that taken away now.
You perhaps haven't seen the graphics on the LFR "sets"
(http://wowhead.com/news=236594/warlords-of-draenor-transmog-preview-3d-armor-sets),
but they're hideous imo, it's like greens, I will certainly be
transmogging them away, quite possibly to the crafted or even dungeon
sets, both of which are much nicer! Sure, not everyone cares about
looks, but I know a good number do. And I think *everyone* likes to
get good gear, I don't see the point in total removal of bonuses,
maybe just make them exclusive to LFR and a bit lower effect (ie,
normal raiders can't mix in LFR gear for the bonus), would solve the
problem in a way that won't upset half the playerbase.

I dont have a problem with that. Most gear havent been pretty since BC.
Today's gear is dark and dull and I wonder why it is that as the rest
of the game is pretty cartoon'ish. Its like Blizzard is trying to sit
between 2 chairs - one with the cartoon style and another with a more
updated and modern style inspired from many other games.
And the set bonuses? Honestly. It's still just a gear set bonus. A
huge part of the playerpool will see the endgame content anyway and with
epics in every slot. Just at a lower difficulty level.

Post by Catriona R
Gearing is changing bigtime

I catch up the information 2-3 weeks before the next expansion goes live
as I dont feel to worry about it now as there is no official release
date atm.
We entered May today and there has been loads of rumors with an official
release date in august. That is 3 months from now. I still guess
november. 3-5 months is plenty of time for planned changes to the
planned changes to the planned changed..... in WoD.

The only brilliant information I've heard is the news about the revamped
farm in WoD. i've only heard about it from a guildie. But it sounds
like Blizzard are implementing loads of sim city/sims elements in it.
But again. Blizzard also said they would make our farm in MoP much more
interesting with the latest 5.4 patch. The only thing we got is the
more or less useless portal shard and another place to set our hearth
stone. So I've learned to not have any expectations to the content
until the next expansion is just around the corner. I just play the
game and try to fit in with the changes. :)

--
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Catriona R

2014-05-01 13:06:55 UTC

Common misconception, mainly used by those who are hardcore raiders
when arguing why the rest shouldn't get anything. Character

I'm not a hardcore raider. I'm in a non-HC guild with a very laid back
atmosphere and some of us finally killed Garrosh on normal a few weeks
ago 7-8(!) months after 5.4 was released. :)

You're still ahead of the more casual types gearwise though, and I can
say from the viewpoint of someone who only does LFR: I like being able
to work towards better gear, evem though I'm geared well enough to do
anything I want alreayd, it's just about progressing my character even
more. Part of why I never bothered with SoO LFR was the gear in it is
rubbish: I had almost as good from valor before it came out and got
better in nearly every slot on the Timeless isle...

Post by Peter T.
I look at my guild's members where many of them are fine with just
killing a rare, doing a hc scen and a LFR now and then. Most of them
dont even sign up for our guild's weekly flex run where some of us uses
our well-geared mains for carrying them through the bosses so they can
get even better gear!

It's entirely possible that they don't like organised raiding, or
don't have the time to commit to it. I've never done a flex raid, and
there's plenty pugs on my realm, plus I actually do meet the stupid
ilvl requirements most use - I just don't enjoy it and don't want to
dedicate a big chunk of time to it. I still imagine your guildies like
having the option to get tier pieces in LFR, both in looks and
setbonuses :-)

I'm with you on that count, there's very few sets I've liked since
Burning Crusade, almost nothing in Wrath/Cata, a slightly larger
number in MoP but it's just not really my style. The WoD paladin set
seems to be returning to the TBC feel though, if my main was a pally
I'd be wanting that one.

Post by Peter T.
And the set bonuses? Honestly. It's still just a gear set bonus. A
huge part of the playerpool will see the endgame content anyway and with
epics in every slot. Just at a lower difficulty level.

Yes, but why *take away* what we've had for two years? That's my point
really, I don't greatly care for setbonuses myself, since I rarely
have more than 2-piece bonus (there's always higher ilvl non-set
pieces available), but it's still an option that's being removed.
There's also removal of trinkets, I've no idea what LFR gets in
exchange, I'd hope there's *some* type of trinket available, but who
knows. it's basically turning LFR into dungeons, instead of another
form of raiding, since it no longer has much in common with the other
raids as far as rewards go.

Guess the elitist whiners got their wish, but it seems daft to punish
a large proportion of players just because a few vocal idiots don't
like others getting lower versions of "their" loot...

Peter T.

2014-05-02 07:26:04 UTC

Post by Catriona R
It's entirely possible that they don't like organised raiding, or
don't have the time to commit to it. I've never done a flex raid, and
there's plenty pugs on my realm, plus I actually do meet the stupid
ilvl requirements most use - I just don't enjoy it and don't want to
dedicate a big chunk of time to it. I still imagine your guildies like
having the option to get tier pieces in LFR, both in looks and
setbonuses :-)

Of course everybody wants the best gear. No doubt. But again. I guess
a good majority of the players who doesnt raid occasionally are fine
with or at least has accepted their position as they prolly never will
be able to get their hands on raid items due to real life issues or just
simply "I enjoy killing a mob and do a quest now and then".
In my guild we have a handful of real-life couples where the other part
just play the game for an hour or two now a few times a week.

Post by Catriona R
Yes, but why *take away* what we've had for two years?

It all started in wotlk after winning Wintergrasp. We got access to the
small pewpew raid where we could win set bonus gear. :)
I cant talk about Cata as I skipped this expansion completely.

Post by Catriona R
Guess the elitist whiners got their wish, but it seems daft to punish
a large proportion of players just because a few vocal idiots don't
like others getting lower versions of "their" loot...

I imagine most so-called elitist whiners arent that old anyway. Some
other just have silly personalities. So I couldnt care less about them.
And dont forget whiners are able to "fill a room" with their negative
attitude and bad karma despite they are a waste minority.

--
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Fvert

2014-05-02 15:09:34 UTC

Post by Catriona R
Oof. That is not going to go down well; I have a strong suspicion that
far more people regard LFR as their main source of raiding, than feel
"forced" to run it in addition to regular raiding. Personally, I can
live with it, LFR is the only raiding I do but it's no great priority
of mine, I play WoW for the questing and collecting elements
primarily, infact I only completed SoO once (burned out completing my
cloak, can't face any more raiding for a while!), so while I'm
annoyed, it's not that big a deal personally, its main effect will be
to make me do even less LFR. But to the people who love raiding in LFR
form, it is enormously unfair to take so much away from them.

Hadn't seen that. I don't care that much for the gear - though I will
take what I can get. I like the content. Had never really raided in any
form before the legendary quest and depended on LFR. I just hope it
doesn't lengthen the queue times for when I do want to raid via LFR.

Brian

Peter T.

2014-05-02 16:03:09 UTC

Post by Fvert
I just hope it
doesn't lengthen the queue times for when I do want to raid via LFR.

You can queue for multiple LFR instances now so it almost feels youre
joining an LFR instantly.

--
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Catriona R

2014-05-02 18:01:00 UTC

Post by Fvert
I just hope it
doesn't lengthen the queue times for when I do want to raid via LFR.

You can queue for multiple LFR instances now so it almost feels youre
joining an LFR instantly.

Of course that only works if you're not picky which one you want to do
:-) I think it may well affect queue times, raiders won't be dropping
in after the first couple of weeks, and people who do LFR mainly will
have a lot less motivation to bother once they've seen it a couple of
times. Maybe I'll run more alts through this time out, since I'll be
bored on my main quickly, but still, it'll likely make it tougher
overall too as there won't be many well-geared people around to carry
the ones who are crap players/too lazy to actually play properly. I
hope it doesn't go that way though, but it's certainly not a positive
development.

Peter T.

2014-05-03 11:35:36 UTC

Post by Peter T.
You can queue for multiple LFR instances now so it almost feels youre
joining an LFR instantly.

Of course that only works if you're not picky which one you want to do
:-)

Sure. But if youre farming runestones/titans for the legendary quest
chain or you just want better gear it really doesnt matter which wing
and raid youre queueing for. There is almost an item for every slot in
every wing in SoO.

Post by Catriona R
I think it may well affect queue times, raiders won't be dropping
in after the first couple of weeks, and people who do LFR mainly will
have a lot less motivation to bother once they've seen it a couple of
times.

LFR is your bread and butter depending on your goal in the game. It
cant be fun all the time. Especially the legendary quest is just
ridiculously hard work every week in 2-4 months depending on luck and
available time. Just like the endless grinding and farming if you
wanted to open the gates of ahn'qiraj in Tanaris in vanilla.

Post by Catriona R
Maybe I'll run more alts through this time out, since I'll be
bored on my main quickly, but still, it'll likely make it tougher
overall too as there won't be many well-geared people around to carry
the ones who are crap players/too lazy to actually play properly. I
hope it doesn't go that way though, but it's certainly not a positive
development.

Im lost. Are you talking about SoO/lfr or the planned raid changes in WoD?

If Blizzard makes this game even easier or the game gets even more
simplified I will consider my subsription seriously. Its not about
being an elitist whiner. Its about watching real in-game challenges
disappering in the fog of simpleness.
In MoP we have the legendary questline. Warlocks has the green fire
questchain. Both ends with a useful or vanity reward. MORE OF THAT,
PLEASE!!!

--
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Catriona R

2014-05-03 12:17:53 UTC

Post by Peter T.
You can queue for multiple LFR instances now so it almost feels youre
joining an LFR instantly.

Of course that only works if you're not picky which one you want to do
:-)

My fear now is that to save the poor dear raiders from feeling obliged
to do LFR for their legendary quest chains when their guild hasn't got
through normal mode, LFR won't get it next time (assuming there is
another chain). I very much hope I'm wrong, I loved having access to
the chain this time out, gave me a lot more purpose in the game having
something like that to work on.

Im lost. Are you talking about SoO/lfr or the planned raid changes in WoD?

WoD.

Post by Peter T.
If Blizzard makes this game even easier or the game gets even more
simplified I will consider my subsription seriously. Its not about
being an elitist whiner. Its about watching real in-game challenges
disappering in the fog of simpleness.
In MoP we have the legendary questline. Warlocks has the green fire
questchain. Both ends with a useful or vanity reward. MORE OF THAT,
PLEASE!!!

Agreed! I don't want them taking these things *away* from those of us
who aren't in high-end raid guilds, that's all. For most of the
history of the game we never had these things, we've had them this
expansion, and now some are being removed again, I'm worried how far
it'll go.

Lewis

2014-05-02 17:00:39 UTC

Post by Catriona R
"Wed like to ... minimize the elements that have made guild raiders
feel like they needed to do Raid Finder each week as part of their
core progression. Accordingly, while loot will be awarded more
frequently, Raid Finder in Warlords will have different loot tables
than the Normal, Heroic, or Mythic versions of the raids, along with
different item art. The gear will fall in between dungeon loot and
Normal mode raid loot in terms of power, as it does today, but without
the set bonuses and specific trinkets that tend to make raiders feel
like they need to run Raid Finder alongside their weekly guild raids
today."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13942448
Oof. That is not going to go down well; I have a strong suspicion that
far more people regard LFR as their main source of raiding, than feel
"forced" to run it in addition to regular raiding.

Of course, but Blizzard started listening to the whiny little bitch
raiders a long time ago and continues to structure end game around their
whining. It started with PVP gear and has continued ever since.

In WoD, they have eliminated the need for toons to carry multiple sets
of gear, *unless* they PVP in which case they have to have an entire
second set of gear.

The whining on this is "all these fake raiders are getting gear that
looks like ours and it only a few lvls lower. It's unfair to us raiders
to have other people able to progress in the game."

--
These budget numbers are not just estimates, these are the actual
results for the fiscal year that ended February the 30th. - GWB

Catriona R

2014-05-02 17:57:09 UTC