Why is the word Twink used for $$$-geared BG alts?

Post by Bill J.
I was rather shocked the first time I saw a guild named "Twinks R Us"
in general chat. From context and my understanding of the word "twink"
outside of WoW, I thought they were a gay pride guild who liked to
fight Horde. This was something I thought was technically against
Blizzard's narrow minded TOS.
Before playing any MMORPGs, I had only heard "twink" used to refer to
young attractive gay males. How did "twink" attain the usage it has in
WoW?

AFAIK

A Twink is a char that will play in Arena's at level 19, 29, 39, 49 etc. to
collect honour points, marks and all...

These honour points or weapons that can be bought for these honour points
will be transfered to the main char.

The main char wil vis-a-vis transfer nice gear collected in quests to the
twink (say the main is a warrior and the twink is a mage: the warrior will
transfer the clothie stuff to the twink).

Dunno if it's even possible with the soulbound-option for weapons bought
with marks...

Doc

2007-08-15 22:11:25 UTC

Ah, you can't transfer honor or Marks or any armor/weapons bought with them
to other toons.

--
Doc
'Virtus et armis!'

70 Hunter - Nagrand
70 Warlock - Nagrand
61 Rogue - Skywall
61 Warrior - Llane

thedoctor

2007-08-16 05:01:49 UTC

Post by Doc

Ah, you can't transfer honor or Marks or any armor/weapons bought with them
to other toons.
--
Doc
'Virtus et armis!'
70 Hunter - Nagrand
70 Warlock - Nagrand
61 Rogue - Skywall
61 Warrior - Llane- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Wow, this was a pretty heavy discussion from Twink to
Carebears...amazing....although, the initial question stated by Bill
was a good one. I myself asked my son the same question a few weeks
ago which he just replied "its a really tricked out toon".

So where did toon come from?

______________________________

http://www.squidoo.com/world-of-warcraft-gold-guides-reviews/

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-16 16:58:41 UTC

Post by thedoctor
So where did toon come from?

I've really wondered that myself. It seemed to have erupted in the
few years that I wasn't playing ORPGs. There's some other term that
I hadn't seen pre-WoW that I ask about now and then, but can't think
of it off the top of my head. Erg, bugging me now.

Palindrome

2007-08-16 18:57:28 UTC

Post by thedoctor
So where did toon come from?

One theory is that it stems from Steve Jackson's pencil and paper
game, called "Toon", where people created and played cartoon
characters. The characters created were called 'toons' in the
rulebook, and the name just transferred across gaming genres. Whether
this is true or not, I cannot say.

Palindrome

David Collantes

2007-08-14 10:06:27 UTC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking

JayMcK

2007-08-14 10:37:29 UTC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking

While this does explain what a twink is, it doesn't really explain how
an uber-geared player came to be known as a twink. From what I've read
elsewhere, one explanation is that twinks usually have high-level
enchants on their weapons, causing them to "twinkle", hence the term.

I've also heard that it actually comes from the "alternative lifestyle"
connotation you mentioned, whereas in that context it often refers to a
younger person with a lifestyle and/or possessions beyond his means paid
for by an older "admirer", in this case a twink is a lower-level
character with gear usually provided to him by a higher-level main or
guildmate. Either explanation sounds feasible to me. However, I
believe the term has been used pre-WoW in MMORPG's which don't
necessarily feature the "twinkling" of enchants (i.e., text only MUDs),
so the second explanation may be closer to the truth.
--
Jason

(remove ZZZ from email address to reply)

Bronzebeard Server (PvE):
Kadair (Night Elf Rogue)
Kyphs (Dwarf Hunter)

Auchindoun Server (PvP):
Winifred (Undead Mage)

David Collantes

2007-08-14 11:20:24 UTC

Post by JayMcK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking

More on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Twinking, which contains
similar theories on the etymology of the term.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-14 15:03:21 UTC

Post by JayMcK
elsewhere, one explanation is that twinks usually have high-level
enchants on their weapons, causing them to "twinkle", hence the term.

The term existed long before there were graphics in ORPGs.

Tamzen Cannoy

2007-08-14 19:06:03 UTC

Post by JayMcK
elsewhere, one explanation is that twinks usually have high-level
enchants on their weapons, causing them to "twinkle", hence the term.

The term existed long before there were graphics in ORPGs.

Yup. In AmberMush it was someone who didn't play by the agreed upon RP
rules of consent -- They would insist on winning or insist on declaring
things to be so without agreement from others involved in the plot.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-14 19:52:13 UTC

Post by Tamzen Cannoy
Yup. In AmberMush it was someone who didn't play by the agreed upon RP
rules of consent -- They would insist on winning or insist on declaring
things to be so without agreement from others involved in the plot.

That was typically what I saw dubbed a 'munchkin' (throw in a desire
to min/max on games where you could min/max) back in the day. The two
groups often seemed to be mixed together in one cesspool of suckitude though :)

Darin Johnson

2007-08-14 19:42:39 UTC

Post by JayMcK
While this does explain what a twink is, it doesn't really explain how
an uber-geared player came to be known as a twink.

It's not "uber-geared" players, but players with
uber-gear that they got because someone gave them
a ton of money. Ie, they didn't earn the gear.

"Twink" is probably short for "twinkie" (no
nutritional value). And "twinkie" is the
same as "cream puff". Both are used to
disparage manhood. For a long time, "twink"
was an insult. It meant to imply that even
though the player had good gear on the
outside they were still soft and squishy
on the inside.

In the RPG world, "twink" and "munchkin" are
the same thing. Someone who exploits loopholes
to get more powerful than normal.

But with the battlegrounds things changed I think
and the term evolved. Lots of rich bored players
wanted to get the absolute best gear that was
available for levels 19/29/39/etc. And that was
accomplished through twinking. People forgot the
old meanings, and new players associate "twink"
only with the battlegrounds.

--
Darin Johnson

Ashen Shugar

2007-08-15 15:39:00 UTC

I think it was Darin Johnson <***@usa.net> that wrote something
like...

Post by Darin Johnson
But with the battlegrounds things changed I think
and the term evolved. Lots of rich bored players
wanted to get the absolute best gear that was
available for levels 19/29/39/etc. And that was
accomplished through twinking. People forgot the
old meanings, and new players associate "twink"
only with the battlegrounds.

Yeah, most references to twinking in WoW seems to be in regards to
characters that are built for doing the battlegrounds.

I come from a Diablo 2 background though and in my view, just about
all my characters have been twinked to varying degree's despite only
ever been in 1 battle ground, at that was with my one level 70.
Instead, all 9 of my alts have 3 bag slots in their banks, I'm well on
my way to getting them all filled up with 16 slot bags. I've still
got a dozen or so 14 slot bags in use. They've all gotten gold to
help get and level their secondary skills and their crafting skills.
And when one of my crafters makes something for the lower level ones,
they first go via my enchanter. Heh, I've even got a copper sword,
useable at level 4 with a fiery enchant on it. It was a white item so
I could even swap it around between characters, though none of them
that were of a level to want it could use swords at that time.

On a slightly different topic, one thing that might make tradeskills
better is to give the items they create the same "points" per level as
epics have. So a tailor can make a robe with stats that you could use
at level 20 that you'd have to be level 30 if you wanted the same
stats from a green world drop.

Ashen Shugar

--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

Moosen

2007-08-15 02:56:02 UTC

Post by JayMcK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking

Nope. This expression has been around long before twinkly item
enchantments existed in games.

Post by JayMcK
I've also heard that it actually comes from the "alternative lifestyle"
connotation you mentioned, whereas in that context it often refers to a
younger person with a lifestyle and/or possessions beyond his means paid
for by an older "admirer", in this case a twink is a lower-level
character with gear usually provided to him by a higher-level main or
guildmate.

Hehe, somebody pulled that fanciful piece of imagination out of their
rump. No gay pun intended.

Post by JayMcK
Either explanation sounds feasible to me. However, I
believe the term has been used pre-WoW in MMORPG's which don't
necessarily feature the "twinkling" of enchants (i.e., text only MUDs),
so the second explanation may be closer to the truth.

Neither have the remotest basis in truth, but it is fun to randomly
hypothesize, sometimes ;-) I have no idea how long the term has been
around, but my first encounter with it was back in the year 2000, with
the arrival of Diablo2. I never played Evercrack, but I'm sure that
game had a similar twinking thing going on. Back then it was referred
to as "twinking up" your character, or "twinking". A player who did
this was a "twinker". As is the nature of the human beast, we tend to
always make things shorter and easier to say, over time... hence, now
it is just "twink". Probably nobody knows for sure exactly who coined
the phrase orginally, or what their reasoning for it was (if any), but
I like to think it was probably just a flippant verbal variation of
'tweaking', with possibly a dab of 'tinkering', that gave birth to the
phrase. Tweaking + tinkering = twinking. As logical a rationalization
as any, heh.

But twinking is the basic act of tinkering with your character to make
him as good as he can possibly be for his level, by tweaking his kit
to include weapons, armor, enchantments, etc. that he wouldn't
normally have access to. There you have it.

Paul O'Neill

2007-08-14 12:27:10 UTC

Young attractive gay males sometimes have rich older gay boyfriends who buy
them nice things. Hence the term.

Ken from Chicago

2007-08-14 15:25:57 UTC

Young attractive gay males sometimes have rich older gay boyfriends who
buy them nice things. Hence the term.

Ah, a gay version of "Sugar Daddy".

-- Ken from Chicago

Paul O'Neill

2007-08-15 02:00:28 UTC

Post by Ken from Chicago

Young attractive gay males sometimes have rich older gay boyfriends who
buy them nice things. Hence the term.

Ah, a gay version of "Sugar Daddy".

A twink would have a sugar daddy, and a sugar daddy would have a twink.

Ken from Chicago

2007-08-15 02:34:21 UTC

Post by Ken from Chicago

Young attractive gay males sometimes have rich older gay boyfriends who
buy them nice things. Hence the term.

Ah, a gay version of "Sugar Daddy".

A twink would have a sugar daddy, and a sugar daddy would have a twink.

Ah, so "twink" is really a gay version of a "kept woman". Got it.

-- Ken from Chicago

Bill J.

2007-08-14 13:25:23 UTC

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

David Collantes

2007-08-14 13:51:35 UTC

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.
Before playing any MMORPGs, I had only heard "twink" used to refer to
young attractive gay males. How did "twink" attain the usage it has in
WoW?

Hari Seldon

2007-08-14 13:58:17 UTC

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

I didn't know the word twinking at all... It was explained to me last night.
Thought to share that knowledge with you as an act of goodwill, probably in
vain...

Bill J.

2007-08-14 14:29:20 UTC

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

I didn't know the word twinking at all... It was explained to me last night.
Thought to share that knowledge with you as an act of goodwill, probably in
vain...

Thank you for that clarification. I was just pointing out that I
attempted in my original post to convey the fact that I know what a
twink is in WoW by including a terse definition in the subject of the
post.

As happens too often, I miserably failed in conveying my meaning with
mere words. Any fault here is purely due to my own lack of eloquence.

Hari Seldon

2007-08-14 14:35:22 UTC

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

I didn't know the word twinking at all... It was explained to me last night.
Thought to share that knowledge with you as an act of goodwill, probably in
vain...

Thank you for that clarification. I was just pointing out that I
attempted in my original post to convey the fact that I know what a
twink is in WoW by including a terse definition in the subject of the
post.
As happens too often, I miserably failed in conveying my meaning with
mere words. Any fault here is purely due to my own lack of eloquence.

np ;-)

Kilmir

2007-08-14 13:58:27 UTC

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

Heh on newsgroups like this you get people of all sorts. Some less
bright people actually use "twink" as a synonym for "alt".

Kilmir

David Collantes

2007-08-14 14:20:37 UTC

Post by Kilmir

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

Heh on newsgroups like this you get people of all sorts. Some less
bright people actually use "twink" as a synonym for "alt".

He asked "How did "twink" attain the usage it has in WoW?". He got
replies well within the inquiry. Do you, also, realize that you are
part of "people of all sorts" you wrote about?

Eric D. Braden

2007-08-14 14:27:12 UTC

Post by Kilmir

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

Heh on newsgroups like this you get people of all sorts. Some less
bright people actually use "twink" as a synonym for "alt".

He asked "How did "twink" attain the usage it has in WoW?". He got
replies well within the inquiry. Do you, also, realize that you are
part of "people of all sorts" you wrote about?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The replies he was referring to weren't actually within the inquiry.
They were definitions of the word, when it seems (to me) quite clear
that he was asking about its etymology.

It's a great question though. The most logical "guess" is pretty
illogical. It doesn't seem like gay slang would be able to work its
way into 1980s text-based gaming. But that seems to make more sense
than the idea that it's a variation on "twinkle".

Perhaps "twinkie" meaning you ended up with cookie-cutter characters,
since twinkie often refers to pseudo-twins?

David Collantes

2007-08-14 14:34:06 UTC

Post by Eric D. Braden

Post by Kilmir

I find it interesting that 2 people answered as if I didnt know how
the term is used or what it means in WoW.

Heh on newsgroups like this you get people of all sorts. Some less
bright people actually use "twink" as a synonym for "alt".

It's a great question though. The most logical "guess" is pretty
illogical. It doesn't seem like gay slang would be able to work its
way into 1980s text-based gaming. But that seems to make more sense
than the idea that it's a variation on "twinkle".

On the "Twinking" discussion I linked, one of the contributors of the
conversation wrote:

"I also first heard the term in EverQuest, but the word's origin had a
slightly different meaning. A higher level character would give money
or new items to a lower level character. While graphically the money
or new items may not twinkle, in popular culture someone who is rich
adorns themselves or others with new things that are often portrayed
as sparkling, shiny or twinkling, such as a "shiny new car" or a
"twinkling diamond necklace". So, if a player receives these new items
or wealth which they normally could not obtain without help, they are
called a Twink: which is a negative connotation for someone who
receives wealth beyond their means."

In the text based MUDs, you do not need to graphically twinkle
(shine). The fact you can get something that hypothetically twinkles
might already be enough for the etymology of the term. I think both,
the "young, pretty gay" slang and the twinkle, shinning suggestion
applies for the origin of the term.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-14 15:04:43 UTC

Post by Eric D. Braden
Perhaps "twinkie" meaning you ended up with cookie-cutter characters,
since twinkie often refers to pseudo-twins?

I always just figured it was because "twinkie" sounded somewhat
demeaning. I knew of "twinkie" in the ORPG sense *long* before I knew
of it in the gay sense (by almost 10-15 years)

2007-08-14 14:41:11 UTC

Quite a few news stories on that. After a near lawsuit Bliz dropped that
stupidity.

Post by Bill J.
Before playing any MMORPGs, I had only heard "twink" used to refer to
young attractive gay males. How did "twink" attain the usage it has in
WoW?

It's used in WoW because it was a term that already existed at launch. How
it originally came into use I don't know, but it does predate WoW by quite a
long time. I know twink gear was a term commonly used in Diablo 2 for
overly good equipment for low level characters. I assume it had a
definition along those longs in similar games before that as well.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-14 15:02:28 UTC

Post by Bill J.
Before playing any MMORPGs, I had only heard "twink" used to refer to
young attractive gay males. How did "twink" attain the usage it has in
WoW?

"Twinking" has a long history in ORPGs, but it never really meant
what it meant in WoW. Historically to "twink" (short for "twinkie",
related to "munchkin" tho not the same thing) meant that your character
was being aided or given access to equipment beyond their means. So
IOW, a runthrough of a lowlevel instance would be "twinking". Sending
an alt gold would be "twinking".

I have no idea how the idiots of today settled on "twinking" to mean
pvping at a particular level w/ the best gear.

Eric D. Braden

2007-08-14 15:16:57 UTC

Post by Bill J.
Before playing any MMORPGs, I had only heard "twink" used to refer to
young attractive gay males. How did "twink" attain the usage it has in
WoW?

"Twinking" has a long history in ORPGs, but it never really meant
what it meant in WoW. Historically to "twink" (short for "twinkie",
related to "munchkin" tho not the same thing) meant that your character
was being aided or given access to equipment beyond their means. So
IOW, a runthrough of a lowlevel instance would be "twinking". Sending
an alt gold would be "twinking".
I have no idea how the idiots of today settled on "twinking" to mean
pvping at a particular level w/ the best gear.

It's *sort of* the same thing. Just a further evolution of the word.
In other words, a twink in EQ was typically a low-level character
wearing high-level gear. In WoW, it's similar, but since almost
everything is level-capped it refers mostly to enchants. Further,
since gear is level-restricted and progression through levels is very
fast, there's not much need to truly "twink" a character since they
will have access to better gear so quickly. The only place in the
game where it makes since to not progress your character's level
relatively quickly is BGs.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-14 16:07:48 UTC

Post by Eric D. Braden
It's *sort of* the same thing. Just a further evolution of the word.

Yeah, but what I meant is how the other portion of it lost its negative
connotation. A "run through" is not even blinked at, but that is
"twinking".

Heck, even WoW "twinks" aren't necessarily viewed in a negative light.

pv+ (PV)

2007-08-14 19:33:56 UTC

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
Yeah, but what I meant is how the other portion of it lost its negative
connotation. A "run through" is not even blinked at, but that is

Says who? It's a gkicking offense to ask for a run through in my guild. *

--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-14 19:52:38 UTC

Post by pv+ (PV)
Says who? It's a gkicking offense to ask for a run through in my guild. *

Hah, nice :)

Blackheart - US - PvP

2007-08-15 04:17:13 UTC

Post by pv+ (PV)

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
Yeah, but what I meant is how the other portion of it lost its negative
connotation. A "run through" is not even blinked at, but that is

Says who? It's a gkicking offense to ask for a run through in my guild. *

that has more to do with you acting alot more hardcore than you really
are... But I guess someone has to be the "hard man of the Warcraft
NG."

Ieyasu

2007-08-14 19:34:54 UTC

Post by Eric D. Braden
It's *sort of* the same thing. Just a further evolution of the word.

Yeah, but what I meant is how the other portion of it lost its negative
connotation. A "run through" is not even blinked at, but that is
"twinking".
Heck, even WoW "twinks" aren't necessarily viewed in a negative light.

On the server I play on, if people find out you're a twink you'll be
hard-pressed to find an enchanter to do any work for you - or any kind of
public service. It just seems that a large percentage of the population is
anti-twink.

Darin Johnson

2007-08-14 19:55:35 UTC

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
I have no idea how the idiots of today settled on "twinking" to mean
pvping at a particular level w/ the best gear.

Because they're trying to turn the word around
and make it sound positive. Ie, all these
high level players with low level twinks in
the battlegrounds who keep being called
twinks. What better way to deflect the
insult than to change the meaning of the
word. Though the meaning has only changed
slightly really, but the negative connotations
have been shrinking.

--
Darin Johnson

Palindrome

2007-08-14 15:15:08 UTC

The word "twink" has been used in MMORPGs for many, many years - since
before WoW was even on the drawing board. David Collantes summed it
up in his post very well. As he said, in EQ the word "twink" was any
character that had been given a large injection of cash at, say lvl 1,
and thus was wearing gear vastly better than the stuff a 'genuine' lvl
1 character would have. My first lvl 1 magic-user in EQ was glad to
get a full set of cloth armour by scavenging, and buying my first
backpack was a big deal. One of my later ones had gear which gave
about 20 times the ac of the first guy, and had weapons and gear
'donated' from my other characters and bought in the Bazaar. The
difference was incredible, and to me, that was "twinking".

The ideal example in WoW was that lvl 1 character wandering about
recently on one of the servers, who was duelling lvl 12 characters and
soundly beating them. That, my friends, is a "twink" as we old-time
MMORPGers know it :)

I wasn't even aware that "twink" was used to refer specifically to
characters in Battlegrounds, as I just assumed the term referred to
ANY player character with high-powered equipment and enchants. As for
the gay term, well, as we see from the word "gay", terminology can be
adapted from anything! I, for one, didn't even KNOW "twink" was a
term also used by gays, so you live and learn...

I would think gamers used it first though, certainly in Europe if not
in the USA.

Palindrome

Eric D. Braden

2007-08-14 15:20:53 UTC

Post by Palindrome
I would think gamers used it first though, certainly in Europe if not
in the USA.
Palindrome

It's a pretty old word in the gay community, as far as I know. Keep
in mind there's a been a gay culture much longer than there's been a
gamer culture ;P

Looking into it this morning, I found one place that pegged it (an
etymology site, and the wiki talk page as well) as early as 1963, but
I didn't see any citations so it's pretty useless.

Paul O'Neill

2007-08-15 02:06:58 UTC

Did anyone apart from Ken see my post? I wasn't guessing.

The word "Twink" is used in the gay community by older gents referring to
younger, attractive guys. These younger boyfriends stay with the older men
because the older men buy them stuff. Cars, clothes, apartments, etc. The
word was then applied in the gaming world to low-level characters who
received similar showers of riches from older, more experienced players.

I don't know the name of the book, but it was in a pretty authoritative book
I read a few years ago about the history of MMOs.

Eric D. Braden

2007-08-15 13:48:18 UTC

Did anyone apart from Ken see my post? I wasn't guessing.
The word "Twink" is used in the gay community by older gents referring to
younger, attractive guys. These younger boyfriends stay with the older men
because the older men buy them stuff. Cars, clothes, apartments, etc. The
word was then applied in the gaming world to low-level characters who
received similar showers of riches from older, more experienced players.
I don't know the name of the book, but it was in a pretty authoritative book
I read a few years ago about the history of MMOs.

I'd love it if you'd dig that book out and let us know what it was.
The meanings are similar, but I still am somewhat unsure about gay
slang finding its way into MUD culture. Particularly in a time when
they didn't have much open interplay.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-15 15:50:08 UTC

Post by Eric D. Braden
I'd love it if you'd dig that book out and let us know what it was.
The meanings are similar, but I still am somewhat unsure about gay
slang finding its way into MUD culture. Particularly in a time when
they didn't have much open interplay.

One problem I have is just seeing how much revisionist history shows
up with modern players as it is - my acceptance would depend a lot
on who was writing it.

Example: I actually knew the person who coined the term "Carebear"
(and it wasn't the negative that it is now) - but the stories I see
that float around about how it started are not only completely wrong
but point to games that came out *after* this happened. There have
even been times when I tried pointing this out only to be told that
Asheron's Call came out before UO. errr, okay.

Eric D. Braden

2007-08-15 16:06:07 UTC

One problem I have is just seeing how much revisionist history shows
up with modern players as it is - my acceptance would depend a lot
on who was writing it.
Example: I actually knew the person who coined the term "Carebear"
(and it wasn't the negative that it is now) - but the stories I see
that float around about how it started are not only completely wrong
but point to games that came out *after* this happened. There have
even been times when I tried pointing this out only to be told that
Asheron's Call came out before UO. errr, okay.

Exactly. We've seen the same thing with pretty much every single
video game slang-term. Pwn, twink, etc. They always seem to
"originate" in the author's favorite game (EQ, CS, and UO being the
usual culprits).

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-15 17:22:23 UTC

Post by Eric D. Braden
Exactly. We've seen the same thing with pretty much every single
video game slang-term. Pwn, twink, etc. They always seem to
"originate" in the author's favorite game (EQ, CS, and UO being the
usual culprits).

'Carebear' is the only one I'll take partial credit for (well, that
and a now very defunct term that seems to have never made it out
of UO). :) But most of the terms that people point to as being
"relatively recent" (read: last 10 years) were around at least in
UO (coming in from the FPS/RTS crowds) or I was aware of them being
around even longer (form my ORPG experience)

Darin Johnson

2007-08-15 20:26:26 UTC

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
'Carebear' is the only one I'll take partial credit for

While "carebear" may have become more popular with
UO, especially with the non-PVP meanings, the term
is older. Here's a post that refers to obliquely
as a style of play for Diplomacy, from 1994 (UO was
1997):

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.diplomacy/msg/0712bd4b6a2720ce?dmode=source&hl=en

Ie, "carebear" there is a style where you're more
politically correct and maintain your alliances
rather than being cuthroat and backstabby. That
would seem to easily morph into a "no PVP" pejorative.

(As a side note, while searching I found references
to "twink" with respect to Diku MUDs from before
Ultima Online opened; though no references to other
types of MUDs)

--
Darin Johnson

pv+ (PV)

2007-08-15 20:57:01 UTC

Post by Darin Johnson
While "carebear" may have become more popular with
UO, especially with the non-PVP meanings, the term
is older. Here's a post that refers to obliquely
as a style of play for Diplomacy, from 1994 (UO was

I love it when this happens! You frequently see Wapanese types say that
some story or TV show was 'ripped off' from an anime series viewed only by
5 people in this hemisphere. Inevitably, a moment's thought will make you
remember a much older example of the same thing, sometimes what the ANIME
was ripping off (this happens rather a lot from what I can tell). It's so
much fun to watch them blow a gasket.

As a general rule - any term or plotline that you think is original (or
that you invented) will always found to be derivative of something older,
or your believed origin story will be complete hogwash. Beware. *

--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.

nanarimer

2007-08-15 21:01:42 UTC

Post by pv+ (PV)
As a general rule - any term or plotline that you think is original (or
that you invented) will always found to be derivative of something older,
or your believed origin story will be complete hogwash. Beware. *

Or it's already been done on the Simpsons twice....

Eric D. Braden

2007-08-15 21:02:11 UTC

Isn't there a quote in that spirit from Mark Twain or Einstein?

blah

2007-08-16 05:11:39 UTC

Post by pv+ (PV)

I love it when this happens! You frequently see Wapanese types say that
some story or TV show was 'ripped off' from an anime series viewed only by
5 people in this hemisphere. Inevitably, a moment's thought will make you
remember a much older example of the same thing, sometimes what the ANIME
was ripping off (this happens rather a lot from what I can tell). It's so
much fun to watch them blow a gasket.
As a general rule - any term or plotline that you think is original (or
that you invented) will always found to be derivative of something older,
or your believed origin story will be complete hogwash. Beware. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.

Look. I think we should just come out and say that we can use the word
'twink' and not be thought gay. There. I said it.
...not that there's anything wrong with that.

j***@hexduxhmp.org

2007-08-15 21:36:53 UTC

As always, these things don't come out of a vaccuum. It was
chosen for the same reason as that - the 'Carebears' were
a peaceful bunch. The original pack were' carebears' in that
they resisted the onslaught of a few PK groups, the PKs picked
up on the term, started using it to describe their opposition,
it ballooned.

Here's Raph Koster's take on it (Elawyn of Yew was a cool
guy, he once got mad at me for drinking all of his beer when
I was camping out at his place):
http://textfiles.poboxes.info/digest/MUD-DEV/24581.html

CHesapeake was my roomate's server (Elawyn's server), LS was mine.
Xav == Xavori, a brilliant RP-PVPer.

Post by Darin Johnson
(As a side note, while searching I found references
to "twink" with respect to Diku MUDs from before
Ultima Online opened; though no references to other
types of MUDs)

Definitely. I rmeember seeing it years before UO opened its gates.

Dan

2007-08-16 12:12:24 UTC