Shadow priest leveling talents?

Wand spec is SO GOOD at lower levels, that I would pay to respec, and take
those points FIRST -- followed, of course, by spirit tap and imp sw:p. After
that, you have some choices to make.

2. Should I do Blackout or Shadow Focus?

It depends. Do you plan to PvP at all? Blackout is a wonderful talent when
it procs, especially in battlegrounds - but Shadow Focus is an absolute
essential when you are fighting mobs with high resists. That said, you could
probably forgo Shadow Focus for Blackout at lower levels, and take it up
later when you re-spec.

3. How important is Imp. Psychic Scream > Silence for PvE solo play?

During one of my re-specs, I tried doing without 'Silence'. Until that point
I never realized just how much I had used it. I would take Improved Psychic
scream just to get to Silence, but I must admit, with my new priestess I
find I am soloing often, and using fear often as well. The reduced cooldown
is important ONLY for solo play, IMO, as you will rarely use Psychic Scream
in groups or instances.

4. I've read that Shadowweaving isn't a good solo talent, but it seems
nice. Is it worth it?

It isn't that Shadowweaving isn't a good solo talent -- it is that it
ab-so-lute-ly ROCKS as a group talent. It places a debuff on the mob that
makes it more vulnerable to shadow damage, and that means any shadow damage
spells cast by others will also have an increased effect. I would not be
without it.

At lower levels, you pretty much can't make too many mistakes in the Shadow
tree. What you are looking for is to maximize your damage. Grab Mind-Flay as
soon as you can. For solo play, I wouldn't bother with Shadow Affinity. I
would spend my points so as to get to Vampiric Embrace and Shadow Form as
soon as possible. Since you want wand spec at low levels (and a good wand!),
this means you will want to respec in your mid-30's or at 40 itself in order
to grab ShadowForm. At that time, you might want to dump points from
Blackout (if you take them) and move those to Shadow Focus. I seem to recall
it was around mid-30's that I got annoyed by mobs resisting my spells.

John Salerno

2007-10-07 01:40:48 UTC

Post by L

Post by John Salerno
2. Should I do Blackout or Shadow Focus?

It depends. Do you plan to PvP at all?

No, not at all.

Post by L
At lower levels, you pretty much can't make too many mistakes in the Shadow
tree. What you are looking for is to maximize your damage. Grab Mind-Flay as
soon as you can.

That's the thing. If I do 5 points in Wand Spec, then that's 5 levels
I'm behind in getting Mind Flay. Otherwise, Wand Spec would be good, but
I don't know if I like the idea of leaving the shadow tree. I would
definitely respec at 40 anyway to get Shadowform, but is Mind Flay so
good that you need it at 20?

ASKF

2007-10-07 03:02:02 UTC

Post by L

Post by John Salerno
2. Should I do Blackout or Shadow Focus?

It depends. Do you plan to PvP at all?

No, not at all.

Post by L
At lower levels, you pretty much can't make too many mistakes in the Shadow
tree. What you are looking for is to maximize your damage. Grab Mind-Flay as
soon as you can.

At level 20 I remember I used it a lot, but it made me run out of mana
too fast, and I was even a bit of a twink (all in blue from quests and
instances), but when I could got the quest reward wand from Blackfathom
Deep <http://thottbot.com/i7001>, I got used to wanding instead.

--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus

John Salerno

2007-10-13 20:51:47 UTC

Post by ASKF
At level 20 I remember I used it a lot, but it made me run out of mana
too fast, and I was even a bit of a twink (all in blue from quests and
instances), but when I could got the quest reward wand from Blackfathom
Deep <http://thottbot.com/i7001>, I got used to wanding instead.

Yeah, I got that wand at 18, and now I use this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=13063

So far it's much better than Mind Flay.

2007-10-07 17:38:51 UTC

Post by L

Post by John Salerno
2. Should I do Blackout or Shadow Focus?

It depends. Do you plan to PvP at all?

No, not at all.

Post by L
At lower levels, you pretty much can't make too many mistakes in the
Shadow tree. What you are looking for is to maximize your damage. Grab
Mind-Flay as soon as you can.

That's the thing. If I do 5 points in Wand Spec, then that's 5 levels I'm
behind in getting Mind Flay. Otherwise, Wand Spec would be good, but I
don't know if I like the idea of leaving the shadow tree. I would
definitely respec at 40 anyway to get Shadowform, but is Mind Flay so good
that you need it at 20?

IMO Wand Spec is more important.

Don't be afraid to respec! I haven't done it too often (I took the freebies
when Blizz re-designed the priest talents, and when all talents were
redesigned pre-TBC). But, there are talents that become more important
LATER. Like the decision between Shadow Focus and Blackout. You probably
won't miss Shadow Focus at levels under 30. You WILL miss it as you get
close to 40. And Wand Spec might not be so important AFTER 40 - but you
really need it.... NOW.

Allan put it better than I have. The advice he gave is really on point -
even the points on cooking/fishing. If you are not in a race to 70, taking
some time to level those as you advance is a great idea. Food buffs are
really helpful.

John Salerno

2007-10-07 21:06:58 UTC

Post by L
IMO Wand Spec is more important.
Don't be afraid to respec!

Heh heh, I actually specced already to move the 2 points in Imp SW:P
into Wand Spec. Probably a little pointless, but the cost doesn't bother
me now that I have my main in Outland finding gold lying around all over
the place. :)

Post by L
Like the decision between Shadow Focus and Blackout. You probably
won't miss Shadow Focus at levels under 30. You WILL miss it as you get
close to 40. And Wand Spec might not be so important AFTER 40 - but you
really need it.... NOW.

Good stuff. That's one of the main things I was wondering about. Seems
like maybe Blackout is better for now, or at least as a filler. I guess
it's more useful until I find that my spells are being resisted too
much, otherwise Shadow Focus would be a waste.

I also just got this last night: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=7001 and
the full 5/5 in Wand Spec. :)

David Casey

2007-10-06 21:46:12 UTC

Post by John Salerno
I'm quite enjoying my troll priestess so far. I've always been
fascinated with priests, but I hated trolls for some reason, but now my
mind is changed! :)
Anyway, so far I have 5/5 Spirit Tap (naturally!) and 2/2 Imp. SW:P.
What should I do for the next few levels?
1. Is Wand Spec. really good enough to forsake the Shadow tree for 5 levels?
2. Should I do Blackout or Shadow Focus?
3. How important is Imp. Psychic Scream > Silence for PvE solo play?
4. I've read that Shadowweaving isn't a good solo talent, but it seems
nice. Is it worth it?
Anyway, a little guidance for the next 10 levels or so would be appreciated.
Thanks!

I used 5/5 Wand Spec. during the grind on my 70 priest. Once I got a mob
down to a few hundred health it didn't seem to make much sense to waste
mana killing them with a spell when a few wand shots would finish them off
in the same amount of time.

Dave

--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!
http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

ASKF

2007-10-07 02:48:16 UTC

Indead it is. With a good wand, you can just bring a mob down to about
50% health and wand it to death. It's a very normal tactic to conserve
mana, so you won't have as much down time drinking.

Post by John Salerno
2. Should I do Blackout or Shadow Focus?

You should do Shadow Focus, it's much more important that the mobs don't
resist your spells than you have a 10% chance to stun. Blackout might be
better untill you get past level 30, and it's not that bad an idea to
pick it first and then respec when you start encountering mobs that
resists your shadow spells.

Post by John Salerno
3. How important is Imp. Psychic Scream > Silence for PvE solo play?

It really depends on the way you play. I use Psychic Scream a lot, but I
don't silence them that often when soloing. It can however be great if
you're up against caster mobs, because they will run towards you when
silenced, and you can then use Psychic Scream + Mind Flay.

Post by John Salerno
4. I've read that Shadowweaving isn't a good solo talent, but it seems
nice. Is it worth it?

It is one of the most important talents to have, not just for grouping
with locks, but you will do a lot more damage yourself. When you have
Imp. SW:P, Imp. Vampiric Embrace, and Vampiric Touch, you can often
grind for quite a long time, before having to drink, and you hardly ever
need to heal.

I don't think I have ever seen it left out of a shadow build.

Post by John Salerno
Anyway, a little guidance for the next 10 levels or so would be appreciated.

Here is a suggestion for a build that will work well till you reach
level 40 and can get your Shadowform:
<http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVZZxMgzztR>

If you don't use Psychic Scream much you could try this build instead:
<http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVMhZZxMxd0x>

At lower levels the Imp. PW:S and PW:F can be great, because you will
often run out of mana when fighting multible mobs.

When you reach level 40 it's time to respec so you can get Shadowform:
<http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bZZxMgz0tRhu>

Another good advice is to get your fishing and cooking up, so you can
get the buff from the cooked Sagefish. The rivers in Ashenvale and
Hillsbrad Foothills (both lvl 20-30 areas) have a lot of Sagefish pools,
and you WILL want to get your fishing and cooking up to at least 300
before entering outland anyway.

--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus

steve.kaye

2007-10-08 07:15:44 UTC

Post by ASKF

Post by John Salerno
4. I've read that Shadowweaving isn't a good solo talent, but it seems
nice. Is it worth it?

It is one of the most important talents to have, not just for grouping
with locks, but you will do a lot more damage yourself. When you have
Imp. SW:P, Imp. Vampiric Embrace, and Vampiric Touch, you can often
grind for quite a long time, before having to drink, and you hardly ever
need to heal.
I don't think I have ever seen it left out of a shadow build.

I left it out of my shadow / disc build recently. I just don't think
it's that great and so I added talents from disc to improve my mana
conservation. I was at level 62 at the time and so I didn't have
enough points to get what I wanted in disc as well.

The reason that I don't like it is that it rarely stacks to 5 in most
solo fights even with it maxed out. 1 for SW:P, 1 for Mind Blast, 1
for Mind Flay and then I'm coming to the end of the fight and just
wanding anyway so I'm not even using the extra damage unless it
affects SW:P after it is applied. In groups for non-elites it's even
worse unless one or more of your group-mates uses shadow.

steve.kaye

P.S. I'm not a great fan of shadow anyway - too mana intensive for my
preferred play style. I'd rather kill things more slowly and not stop
than kill them quickly and drink. (I just respecced to Holy / Disc at
63)

John Salerno

2007-10-08 07:48:52 UTC

Post by steve.kaye
The reason that I don't like it is that it rarely stacks to 5 in most
solo fights even with it maxed out.

I was thinking that too. It doesn't seem like a great solo/leveling
talent after all, simply because you kill faster than it takes for this
talent to really get to work.

Zil

2007-10-08 10:03:12 UTC

Post by ASKF

Post by John Salerno
1. Is Wand Spec. really good enough to forsake the Shadow tree for 5 levels?

Indead it is. With a good wand, you can just bring a mob down to about
50% health and wand it to death. It's a very normal tactic to conserve
mana, so you won't have as much down time drinking.

Not just conserving mana, but more importantly getting out of the 5 second
rule before the killing blow, which gives Spirit Tap maximum effect, and
vastly improves mana regen.

--
Zil, Level 70 NE Priest, Aman Shan're, Stormrage Europe

BombayMix

2007-10-08 10:31:26 UTC

Post by Zil

Post by ASKF

Post by John Salerno
1. Is Wand Spec. really good enough to forsake the Shadow tree for 5 levels?

Indead it is. With a good wand, you can just bring a mob down to about
50% health and wand it to death. It's a very normal tactic to conserve
mana, so you won't have as much down time drinking.

Not just conserving mana, but more importantly getting out of the 5 second
rule before the killing blow, which gives Spirit Tap maximum effect, and
vastly improves mana regen.

I wouldn't recommend it at all. The extra damage is mininal compared
to SW:P and VT (once you have it) Those are your real killers not
wanding. Wand the mob to death if you want but if the dots are ticking
its not needed. Its going to die anyway.

You should get Mind Blast/Shadowform asap. They are two of a
Shadowpriest's main spells.

I found Blackout very useful at all levels. When it procs it gives you
a chance to let off a mind blast, saves having to shield or fear. Plus
if you are a troll priest, Shadowguard help procs it. I found Blackout
procs all the time. I atcually have up Spirit Tap for Blackout in my
new raiding spec. Got loads of mana for soloing and Spirit Tap not
much use right now for raiding/pvp.

I wouldn't 5 spec Shadow weaving, I had it for 3/5 most of the time.
Raised it to 4/5 now. It seemed to proc enough to help.

Shadow foucs is always good. Decrease your resist by 10%, giving you
6%. The only time you shouldn't have it 5 speced is when you are
raiding and have loads +spell hit gear. You can start taking points
out of it. (I've gone over the 16% cap, need to tweak.)

BLMX

2007-10-08 14:56:43 UTC

Call me unconventional, but I never included wandspec in my shadow
builds. Even in my Holy builds I only tried it for a few levels.
While I understand the efficiency of wanding thru the FSR for spirit
tap, I only kept spirit tap for a few levels.

I think it has alot to do with play style & realm type... if you're
steadily grinding near-level mobs then the efficiency is noticeable.
If you're soloing quests on a PVP server, you'll likely appreciate the
stun procs and the 15% fear resists. I don't mind drinking later... I
just want to win *this* fight. :D

BombayMix

2007-10-08 15:15:48 UTC

Post by BLMX
Call me unconventional, but I never included wandspec in my shadow
builds. Even in my Holy builds I only tried it for a few levels.
While I understand the efficiency of wanding thru the FSR for spirit
tap, I only kept spirit tap for a few levels.
I think it has alot to do with play style & realm type... if you're
steadily grinding near-level mobs then the efficiency is noticeable.
If you're soloing quests on a PVP server, you'll likely appreciate the
stun procs and the 15% fear resists. I don't mind drinking later... I
just want to win *this* fight. :D

I think it's a lot to do with the fact people fell they have to be
doing something to kill the mob. DOTs need time to work, casting them
then doing nothing while they work is hard for people to do. They need
to be pressing buttons. They need to kill the mob a few seconds
faster. Which is why people wand mobs to death. But its not strictly
needed, you just need a bit of patience.

If the mob likely to hit you, you can run or circle-stife until its
dead. And if it hits you a few times, it doesn't matter. You can soak
up a bit of damage.

Oh, and I'm on a PVE server.

John Salerno

2007-10-08 16:06:32 UTC

Well it does seem rather silly to just stand there waiting for it to
die, or run around trying to avoid it. Especially since you might as
well use a wand and have it die faster. That's the point of leveling
anyway, killing fast.

BombayMix

2007-10-08 16:20:38 UTC

Well it does seem rather silly to just stand there waiting for it to
die, or run around trying to avoid it.

Not as silly wasting talent points. By all means use a wand but
speccing imp wand a waste of talent points imho. Since the wand not
needed to kill, just your DOTs and a bit of patience.

Post by John Salerno
Especially since you might as well use a wand and have it die faster. That's the point of leveling anyway, killing fast.

Is waiting a few seconds really that bad?

BLMX

2007-10-08 18:57:46 UTC

Post by John Salerno
Well it does seem rather silly to just stand there waiting for it to
die, or run around trying to avoid it.

hee hee, yes I can agree that would be silly. Of course, I don't do
that so you'll get no argument here. I'd much rather make it
interesting and pull several mobs and exhaust my mana pull dotting,
screaming and MBing. Fun!

Ashen Shugar

2007-10-09 00:28:25 UTC

I think it was BLMX <junkbin5-***@comcast.net> that wrote something
like...

Post by BLMX

Post by John Salerno
Well it does seem rather silly to just stand there waiting for it to
die, or run around trying to avoid it.

Killing the Sketti Surgers on the way back to hand in the daily
quests, I generally Shield, VT, Pain, MB then *melee* them until they
die. ; )

Ashen Shugar

--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

ASKF

2007-10-09 03:45:36 UTC

BombayMix ytrede sig i

Well it does seem rather silly to just stand there waiting for it to
die, or run around trying to avoid it.

Not as silly wasting talent points. By all means use a wand but
speccing imp wand a waste of talent points imho. Since the wand not
needed to kill, just your DOTs and a bit of patience.

Post by John Salerno
Especially since you might as well use a wand and have it die faster. That's the point of leveling anyway, killing fast.

Is waiting a few seconds really that bad?

It really is, because it's not just a few seconds extra killing one mob,
it's all about a few seconds per mob, thus avoiding to lower XP/h and/or
gold/h ratio.

--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus

BombayMix

2007-10-09 09:09:06 UTC

Post by ASKF
BombayMix ytrede sig i

Well it does seem rather silly to just stand there waiting for it to
die, or run around trying to avoid it.

Not as silly wasting talent points. By all means use a wand but
speccing imp wand a waste of talent points imho. Since the wand not
needed to kill, just your DOTs and a bit of patience.

Post by John Salerno
Especially since you might as well use a wand and have it die faster. That's the point of leveling anyway, killing fast.

Is waiting a few seconds really that bad?

It really is, because it's not just a few seconds extra killing one mob,
it's all about a few seconds per mob, thus avoiding to lower XP/h and/or
gold/h ratio.

Oh please the amount of extra xp and gold gained in minimal. Plus if
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.

Wanding does little damage compared to your shadow spell. You should
be doing everything possible to boost your shadow damage output not
bothering with wand dps output. Since it your shadow spells, esp your
DOTs, that are your abilities that going to kill mobs the fastest not
your wand.

Any shadow priest needs to get Mind Flay/Shadowform and VT ASAP. These
will boost your DPS far more then any wand will.

Once you've max out the shadow tree most shadow priest spec disc to
get the two mana related talents, Inner Focus and the other on I can't
recall the name off. You need to put something in the first two tiers
to get them. Nothing that good for a shadow priest so you might go for
imp wand.

steve.kaye

2007-10-09 09:52:47 UTC

Post by ASKF
It really is, because it's not just a few seconds extra killing one mob,
it's all about a few seconds per mob, thus avoiding to lower XP/h and/or
gold/h ratio.

Oh please the amount of extra xp and gold gained in minimal. Plus if
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.

You don't wand to improve DPS you wand to decrease downtime by saving
mana. If you have improved wands then you can start blasting with
your wand a bit sooner and save more mana and decrease downtime a bit
more.

People have different priorities in their game play. When grinding, I
would much rather take a little longer to kill a mob if it means that
I don't need to drink as much. I hate drinking with a passion. I've
even just respecced Holy/Disc on my priest from Shadow as the downtime
is much less (I have 5 points in shadow for Spirit Tap). Other people
want to maximise DPS to kill the mob as quickly as possible.

steve.kaye

BombayMix

2007-10-09 10:32:12 UTC

Post by steve.kaye

Post by ASKF
It really is, because it's not just a few seconds extra killing one mob,
it's all about a few seconds per mob, thus avoiding to lower XP/h and/or
gold/h ratio.

Oh please the amount of extra xp and gold gained in minimal. Plus if
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.

You've missed my point here.

I've generally already spent enough mana to kill a mob by casting my
DOTs on it. I don't need to do anything else but wait for the DOTs to
work. Waiting for the DOTs to work will get you out of the FSR.

Wanding will make the mob die quicker but only by a few seconds. It's
not effective enough to invest talent points in when you consider the
gains of putting the points into the shadow tree.

Post by steve.kaye
I hate drinking with a passion.

As do I, one reason I spotted playing my mage.

John Salerno

2007-10-09 16:50:19 UTC

Post by BombayMix
You've missed my point here.
I've generally already spent enough mana to kill a mob by casting my
DOTs on it. I don't need to do anything else but wait for the DOTs to
work. Waiting for the DOTs to work will get you out of the FSR.

Uh, what level are you talking about here? Your "DOTs" (plural)??? I
just have SW:P. If there are more later, then that's the difference in
our points of view. I'm not talking about Wand Spec for later in the
game. If you are, then *you* missed the point.

And are the DOTs so expensive that you use up all your mana just to
apply them once??

ASKF

2007-10-10 10:08:52 UTC

SW:P and Vampiric Touch (41 talent point spell).

Post by John Salerno
And are the DOTs so expensive that you use up all your mana just to
apply them once??

Neither of them becomes expensive to apply, and VT will give you (and
your party) mana back, in return for any Shadow damages you do.

--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus

ASKF

2007-10-09 12:23:01 UTC

BombayMix ytrede sig i

Post by ASKF
BombayMix ytrede sig i

Well it does seem rather silly to just stand there waiting for it to
die, or run around trying to avoid it.

Not as silly wasting talent points. By all means use a wand but
speccing imp wand a waste of talent points imho. Since the wand not
needed to kill, just your DOTs and a bit of patience.

Post by John Salerno
Especially since you might as well use a wand and have it die faster. That's the point of leveling anyway, killing fast.

Is waiting a few seconds really that bad?

It really is, because it's not just a few seconds extra killing one mob,
it's all about a few seconds per mob, thus avoiding to lower XP/h and/or
gold/h ratio.

Oh please the amount of extra xp and gold gained in minimal. Plus if
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.
Wanding does little damage compared to your shadow spell. You should
be doing everything possible to boost your shadow damage output not
bothering with wand dps output. Since it your shadow spells, esp your
DOTs, that are your abilities that going to kill mobs the fastest not
your wand.
Any shadow priest needs to get Mind Flay/Shadowform and VT ASAP. These
will boost your DPS far more then any wand will.
Once you've max out the shadow tree most shadow priest spec disc to
get the two mana related talents, Inner Focus and the other on I can't
recall the name off. You need to put something in the first two tiers
to get them. Nothing that good for a shadow priest so you might go for
imp wand.

We were talking about the time before you reach 40 and can get the
shadowform. I did tell the OP to respec at 40, so he could get
shadowform ASAP, thus we don't dissagree on that.

I didn't put talents into disc. before I had all the important stuff in
the shadow tree either, but I did have imp. wand, until I reached 40.

Just tested your suggested playstyle at a few mobs today, and I had to
reaply the dots 2-3 times, and my shield 2-4 times. When using a wand,
that is only needed when fighting multible mobs.

--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus

Ashen Shugar

2007-10-09 12:41:45 UTC

Post by ASKF
Just tested your suggested playstyle at a few mobs today, and I had to
reaply the dots 2-3 times, and my shield 2-4 times. When using a wand,
that is only needed when fighting multible mobs.

The question isn't about the playstyle so much as about the talent
distribution. Points in imp wand vs having the points elsewhere.
Will having the points elsewhere increase your shadow damage enough
say, that it makes up for the fact that you're not hitting as hard
with your wand? I believe it's been agreed that having imp wand at
the cost of being able to have shadowform is less than ideal. But
that's only for like level 40 to 45. What about earlier? Is mindflay
better than imp wand? If you're running instances a lot, I'd imagine
it would be. For solo grinding possibly not, though the slowing
effect of mindflay helps to reduce the damage you take.
And what about once you get shadowform, would it be best to get imp
wand before continuing down the shadow tree then respecing again to
get vampiric touch asap?

Ashen Shugar

--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

John Salerno

2007-10-09 16:48:38 UTC

Post by BombayMix
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.
Wanding does little damage compared to your shadow spell.

All I know is this: my wand does on average about 55 damage per wave, at
1.5 seconds per wave.

Mind Flay rank 1 does 75 damage in 3 seconds. Two waves of my wand (3
seconds) does more than that, and for free, so my wand right now is much
better than Mind Flay. I still use Mind Blast and sometimes Smite (when
it will be better than just wanding).

Since you aren't so concerned about losing time and gold by just
standing around waiting for a mob to die, then it shouldn't be a big
deal just to respec later and pay the gold to do so. I don't plan to
keep wand spec forever (maybe), but right now I'm not missing Mind Flay.
I'll probably get it next level, but I might not even use it yet.

ASKF

2007-10-10 10:27:08 UTC

Post by BombayMix
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.
Wanding does little damage compared to your shadow spell.

All I know is this: my wand does on average about 55 damage per wave, at
1.5 seconds per wave.
Mind Flay rank 1 does 75 damage in 3 seconds. Two waves of my wand (3
seconds) does more than that, and for free, so my wand right now is much
better than Mind Flay. I still use Mind Blast and sometimes Smite (when
it will be better than just wanding).
Since you aren't so concerned about losing time and gold by just
standing around waiting for a mob to die, then it shouldn't be a big
deal just to respec later and pay the gold to do so. I don't plan to
keep wand spec forever (maybe), but right now I'm not missing Mind Flay.
I'll probably get it next level, but I might not even use it yet.

When you get +spell damage items, Mindflay will do a lot more damage,
but the +dmg bonus will not affect your wand.

At your level I'll say that Mindflay will be good at preventing runners
reaching other mobs, so you don't aggro more than you can handle.

--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus

t***@wow.com

2007-10-10 14:53:34 UTC

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:48:38 -0400, John Salerno

Post by BombayMix
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.
Wanding does little damage compared to your shadow spell.

All I know is this: my wand does on average about 55 damage per wave, at
1.5 seconds per wave.
Mind Flay rank 1 does 75 damage in 3 seconds. Two waves of my wand (3
seconds) does more than that, and for free, so my wand right now is much
better than Mind Flay. I still use Mind Blast and sometimes Smite (when
it will be better than just wanding).
Since you aren't so concerned about losing time and gold by just
standing around waiting for a mob to die, then it shouldn't be a big
deal just to respec later and pay the gold to do so. I don't plan to
keep wand spec forever (maybe), but right now I'm not missing Mind Flay.
I'll probably get it next level, but I might not even use it yet.

I dont' find mind flay to be all that great. It doesn't do the dmg i
thouht it would, at least not at lvl 28, so i got it but rarely ever
use it. I was really disappointed by it. I guess I still think i'm
playing the warlock. Mind flay is about as useless as drain mana for
a warlock.

BombayMix

2007-10-10 15:32:09 UTC

Post by t***@wow.com
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:48:38 -0400, John Salerno

Post by BombayMix
you are specing imp wand over shadow talents you are going to gimp
your dps not boost it.
Wanding does little damage compared to your shadow spell.

All I know is this: my wand does on average about 55 damage per wave, at
1.5 seconds per wave.
Mind Flay rank 1 does 75 damage in 3 seconds. Two waves of my wand (3
seconds) does more than that, and for free, so my wand right now is much
better than Mind Flay. I still use Mind Blast and sometimes Smite (when
it will be better than just wanding).
Since you aren't so concerned about losing time and gold by just
standing around waiting for a mob to die, then it shouldn't be a big
deal just to respec later and pay the gold to do so. I don't plan to
keep wand spec forever (maybe), but right now I'm not missing Mind Flay.
I'll probably get it next level, but I might not even use it yet.

Then I can only assume Mana Drain a vital Warlock spell as a spriest
that doesn't use Mind Flay doesn't know how to play a shadow priest.

It's a vital part of a spriest arsenal. Its instant cast with no cd.
Yes the damage is low but cause it an instant cast with no cd!! Its
mana cost and training cost also real low too. It's therefore the most
mana efficient spell you have.

What you should be doing is cast your dots then Mind Flay. That does
extra damage and more importantly slows the mob thus giving the DOTs
more time to work and delay the use of fear and shield. After the mobs
been feared you should Mind Flay again to delay it coming back to you.

You can safe the use of fear/shield by stifing/running away, then
casting Mind Flay. Thus slowing the mob and giving the DOTs the most
time to work there magic.

In instances Mind Blast and SW:D have a long cool down. If you don't
Mind Flay you'll be standing there doing nothing waiting for Mind
Blast CD to finish. (Pre shadowfrom you can cast Smite). Plus with
talents the Mind Blast CD can be reduced to just about the same time
Mind Flay last.

t***@wow.com

2007-10-10 14:48:38 UTC

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 02:09:06 -0700, BombayMix

Post by ASKF
BombayMix ytrede sig i