Best buff elixirs for questing Warlock?

[Peter Knutsen]

I've tended to just use Troll's Blood guardian elixirs and not use a
battle elixir at all, but recently I've become more interested in
optimizing my questing speed.

My level 47 Druid has been using Firepower or Greater Firepower battle
elixirs, in addition to the Troll's Blood guardian elixir, and he's
thinking about replaing the Troll's Blood with something that boosts INT
or maybe both INT and crit, since he has Talents that benefit from high
INT, and a Talent that improves his critical damage.

Fairly easy to figure out.

The problem is my level 45 Warlock. What does she need?

She burns HP fairly often, so I'm thinking she should stick with the
Troll's Blood for guardian elixir. But what about the battle elixir?
More firepower is nice, but I'm not sure it is as nice as for my Druid,
since she does a lot of her damage via her Voidwalker.

What are the useful and relevant alternatives to firepower?

I can see there's a battle elixir that improves crit, and my Druid would
probably love that, but it requires level 70, so he's some time away
from being able to drink it.

It seems that it is fairly simple, at the level I play on now, to
combine battle+guardian elixir because there very few elixirs available.
Or am I overlooking something?

And am I wrong about the Troll's Blood being the best guadian elixir for
a Warlock? I get 12 health regen from it, IIRC per 5 seconds, so it's
not huge, but ever since I started playing I've always had a Troll's
Blood up while questing, so possibly I'll end up dying more often
without it, because it has become an ingrained part of my playstyle.

[Steve Kaye]

Post by Peter Knutsen
I've tended to just use Troll's Blood guardian elixirs and not use a
battle elixir at all, but recently I've become more interested in
optimizing my questing speed.
My level 47 Druid has been using Firepower or Greater Firepower battle
elixirs, in addition to the Troll's Blood guardian elixir, and he's
thinking about replaing the Troll's Blood with something that boosts INT
or maybe both INT and crit, since he has Talents that benefit from high
INT, and a Talent that improves his critical damage.
Fairly easy to figure out.
The problem is my level 45 Warlock. What does she need?
She burns HP fairly often, so I'm thinking she should stick with the
Troll's Blood for guardian elixir. But what about the battle elixir?
More firepower is nice, but I'm not sure it is as nice as for my Druid,
since she does a lot of her damage via her Voidwalker.

Are you sure that she does a lot of damage via her VW? Do you run a
damage meter? If not, try it and I think that it'll show that the VW
doesn't hit so hard at all. The best battle elixir for her would be the
+SP one in my opinion.

Post by Peter Knutsen
And am I wrong about the Troll's Blood being the best guadian elixir for
a Warlock? I get 12 health regen from it, IIRC per 5 seconds, so it's
not huge, but ever since I started playing I've always had a Troll's
Blood up while questing, so possibly I'll end up dying more often
without it, because it has become an ingrained part of my playstyle.

I think that you overvalue 12hp5. How much health do you have? 2000?
2500? That 12hp5 will be 144 health per minute. How long does a fight
normally last? 30 seconds? That would mean that you'd have an extra 72
health at the end of it? I don't even think that you'll notice that
it's missing.

Having said that, there's not too many other guardian elixirs out there
for a warlock at that level. There's an int buff one but I think that
the troll's blood would better. In a few levels (50) you'll be able to
use Major Fortitude which gives 250 max health with 10 hp5.

steve.kaye

[Peter Knutsen]

[...]

Post by Peter Knutsen
She burns HP fairly often, so I'm thinking she should stick with the
Troll's Blood for guardian elixir. But what about the battle elixir?
More firepower is nice, but I'm not sure it is as nice as for my Druid,
since she does a lot of her damage via her Voidwalker.

Are you sure that she does a lot of damage via her VW? Do you run a
damage meter? If not, try it and I think that it'll show that the VW
doesn't hit so hard at all. The best battle elixir for her would be the
+SP one in my opinion.

Well, actually I'm not sure. My point is just that the VoidWalker does
some of the damage for her, so it's less clearcut that +SP is best,
whereas for the DPS Balance Druid it is extremely obvious.

Post by Peter Knutsen
And am I wrong about the Troll's Blood being the best guadian elixir for
a Warlock? I get 12 health regen from it, IIRC per 5 seconds, so it's
not huge, but ever since I started playing I've always had a Troll's
Blood up while questing, so possibly I'll end up dying more often
without it, because it has become an ingrained part of my playstyle.

I think that you overvalue 12hp5. How much health do you have? 2000?
2500? That 12hp5 will be 144 health per minute. How long does a fight

A bit under 2000 for each character, IIRC (Both are around level 45).
I've tried questing a little bit without the Troll's Blood 12hp5, with
the Druid, and it doesn't make a real difference, although I'll mainain
that early in the game, Troll's Blood *is* helpful.

normally last? 30 seconds? That would mean that you'd have an extra 72
health at the end of it? I don't even think that you'll notice that it's
missing.
Having said that, there's not too many other guardian elixirs out there
for a warlock at that level. There's an int buff one but I think that
the troll's blood would better. In a few levels (50) you'll be able to

Probably for the Warlock yes, but the Druid would benefit from the INT more.

The new problem is, there's one Guardian Elixir that gives +25 INT, and
another that gives +18 INT and +18 SPI, and they're approximately
equally "expensive".

use Major Fortitude which gives 250 max health with 10 hp5.

I'm not sure +250 max hp floats my boat. Then again if I find myself
close to dying, I probably would go for +250 max hp *and* 10hp5 in one
potion.

[Shiflet]

Post by Peter Knutsen
Well, actually I'm not sure. My point is just that the VoidWalker does
some of the damage for her, so it's less clearcut that +SP is best,
whereas for the DPS Balance Druid it is extremely obvious.

Honestly, if you know anything about how to play a warlock, it actually is
pretty clearcut that +SP is the best.

Post by Peter Knutsen
The new problem is, there's one Guardian Elixir that gives +25 INT, and
another that gives +18 INT and +18 SPI, and they're approximately equally
"expensive".

As the other dude said, even bothering with ANY elixirs while leveling is
basically a waste of money, they're really just not worth it.

Post by Peter Knutsen
I'm not sure +250 max hp floats my boat. Then again if I find myself close
to dying, I probably would go for +250 max hp *and* 10hp5 in one potion.

250 max hp is MUCH better than Troll's Blood, if you absolutely feel you
HAVE to have an elixir for leveling. My warlock never used a single elixir
while leveling aside from the ones I just happened to pick up as drops or
get as quest rewards, and he had no BOA gear or twink stuff to make him more
powerful for his level than he should. My shaman who I leveled from 1 to 80
in BOA gear had even less use for them, and my DK never bothered with them
pre-80 either, unless I just happened to have some for whatever reason.

Post by Peter Knutsen
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Peter Knutsen
Well, actually I'm not sure. My point is just that the VoidWalker does
some of the damage for her, so it's less clearcut that +SP is best,
whereas for the DPS Balance Druid it is extremely obvious.

Even if you're in the odd vortex of oddness where a voidwalker is a good
pet (please dont start this again), they don't do damage to speak of - they
tank by direct application of hate, similar to a super-wimpy protection
warrior that never uses their level 80 special abilities.

For a leveling warlock, it's spellpower uber alles. Period. Even
THINKING about enhancing mana regen means it's back to warlock 101. Stop
being bad!

Also - don't waste money or herbs (aka money) on elixirs when leveling.
It's completely pointless. If you wanna stretch out your e-peen when doing
an instance, save them for then, but it's even MORE important that you don't
use a stupid one in that case. *

[Neil Cerutti]

Post by pv+ (PV)
Also - don't waste money or herbs (aka money) on elixirs when
leveling. It's completely pointless. If you wanna stretch out
your e-peen when doing an instance, save them for then, but
it's even MORE important that you don't use a stupid one in
that case. *

I use elixirs, scrolls and food buffs while leveling. I also buy
cheap enchantments. I assume your point is that the game is
easy enough that I really don't need to use them. I can't argue
with that, I suppose. I think of it as building up good habits
for when I reach level 80. ;)

[Shiflet]

I think of it as building up good habits for when I reach level 80. ;)

Most people don't use elixirs and food buffs when questing at level 80
either, so you're not building up "good habits", you're simply "wasting
money". Of course, it's your money so it's your call if you wanna waste it,
but it's not preparing you for level 80 by any means.

See, at level 80, people use food buffs and elixirs for raids, even in
instances it's very rare to see anyone buffed up beyond the natural buffs
their class and the party provides. About the only time I ever see anyone
with food buffs and elixirs on people outside of raids are when they're
getting ready to solo an elite or other "group content", and even then it's
only occasionally.

[Neil Cerutti]

Post by Shiflet

I think of it as building up good habits for when I reach
level 80. ;)

Most people don't use elixirs and food buffs when questing at
level 80 either, so you're not building up "good habits",
you're simply "wasting money". Of course, it's your money so
it's your call if you wanna waste it, but it's not preparing
you for level 80 by any means.
See, at level 80, people use food buffs and elixirs for raids,
even in instances it's very rare to see anyone buffed up beyond
the natural buffs their class and the party provides. About the
only time I ever see anyone with food buffs and elixirs on
people outside of raids are when they're getting ready to solo
an elite or other "group content", and even then it's only
occasionally.

That's quite interesting, and the opposite of what I assumed. So
it's all builds, rotations and gear, then?

[Shiflet]

Post by Neil Cerutti
That's quite interesting, and the opposite of what I assumed. So
it's all builds, rotations and gear, then?

Yes, until you get into raiding. Once you start raiding, THEN you'll want
food buffs and elixirs and such, but for level 80 heroics, food buffs and
elixirs don't get used very often cause they're just not worth the cost. And
it's even less worth it to use them in regular lvl 80 farming/rep
grinding/daily questing simply because they really won't make a difference.
Think of it like this, let's say I'm fighting a regular level 80 mob with my
warlock. The mob has say, 10k life. He's going down in 2 shadow bolts
regardless of whether I have a +80 SP buff or not. The buff won't enable me
to kill him in less time, so it doesn't really serve much purpose. Now,
against a 25 man raid boss with 12 MILLION hp, I may hit him with dozens of
shadowbolts...in that case, an extra 80 sp for each one of them actually
starts to add up. And then when you have 17 other DPS people all getting the
same level buffs to their damage, well, yeah, it starts to add up a lot and
can actually cut down the time it takes to down the boss.

The main reason for that is, most raid bosses have enrage timers and such.
If you don't down them by X amount of time, it's a guaranteed wipe.
Likewise, many of these fights often have a lot more splash and aoe damage
damage that hits the group rather than just the tank. And finally, the boss
fights go on a lot longer than a heroic boss, so mana and mana regen is a
bigger issue. Thus, in cases like that, you want to pump out as much damage
as possible to get the bosses down in time, and want to have your life,
mana, and mana regen buffed up to make sure you can last the entire fight
and have more leeway if a mistake is made somewhere. In these cases, while
they may not be always be *necessary* for success, they can make a lot more
of a difference, so the extra cost of buff foods and elixirs and stuff is
more justified.

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Neil Cerutti
That's quite interesting, and the opposite of what I assumed. So
it's all builds, rotations and gear, then?

For out-in-the-world questing, it's finding a simple /castsequence macro.
If I'm quest farming, everything I do is with one key.

Flasks get used in pvp and raids. Elixirs MAYBE get used for instances if
you need to compensate for poor gear. Potions get used as an oshit button
if you messed up, or as a quick reset out of combat if you're not in the
mood to stop to eat.

If the stuff is super cheap (such as if you made a jillion of them leveling
alchemy or cooking), by all means use them. But you don't need them at all
unless you're approaching the top end of content. *

[Neil Cerutti]

Post by pv+ (PV)

Post by Neil Cerutti
That's quite interesting, and the opposite of what I assumed.
So it's all builds, rotations and gear, then?

For out-in-the-world questing, it's finding a simple
/castsequence macro. If I'm quest farming, everything I do is
with one key.

I made one of those for my Protection Warrior, but then realized
how dumb I was leveling solo as Protections. It wasn't really
that slow, actually, but Arms is just simpler.

Post by pv+ (PV)
Flasks get used in pvp and raids. Elixirs MAYBE get used for
instances if you need to compensate for poor gear. Potions get
used as an oshit button if you messed up, or as a quick reset
out of combat if you're not in the mood to stop to eat.

Yeah, I won't be giving up Healing Potions. I still screw up
enough to need them.

Post by pv+ (PV)
If the stuff is super cheap (such as if you made a jillion of
them leveling alchemy or cooking), by all means use them. But
you don't need them at all unless you're approaching the top
end of content. *

The ones I use are generally stuff I snagged during a Resale
search on the Auction House. For example, my Rogue still has 7
agility elixirs from a batch of 20 I got for a few silvers.
Enchantements tend to show up in my list, too, though I never
have tried to flip them. It just seems impossible with most
players not bothering.

[Steve Kaye]

Post by Shiflet

I think of it as building up good habits for when I reach level 80. ;)

Most people don't use elixirs and food buffs when questing at level 80
either, so you're not building up "good habits", you're simply "wasting
money". Of course, it's your money so it's your call if you wanna waste it,
but it's not preparing you for level 80 by any means.
See, at level 80, people use food buffs and elixirs for raids, even in
instances it's very rare to see anyone buffed up beyond the natural buffs
their class and the party provides. About the only time I ever see anyone
with food buffs and elixirs on people outside of raids are when they're
getting ready to solo an elite or other "group content", and even then it's
only occasionally.

The only character that I use an Elixir on is my Druid and that is
because he is an Alchemist and has a Flask of the North. That is an
alchemist only flask that isn't consumed on use and is about half the
power of the level 80 SP flask.

The only buff food that I tend to use is the +hit one on my DPS
characters if I'm low on hit.

steve.kaye
--
Jengu - 80 Undead Death Knight Clokk - 80 Tauren Druid
Jelan - 80 Troll Priest Miho - 74 Blood Elf Rogue
Kibbs - 80 Blood Elf Paladin Jaille - 72 Blood Elf Warlock

[Neil Cerutti]

Post by Steve Kaye

Post by Shiflet

I think of it as building up good habits for when I reach level 80. ;)

Most people don't use elixirs and food buffs when questing at level 80
either, so you're not building up "good habits", you're simply "wasting
money". Of course, it's your money so it's your call if you wanna waste it,
but it's not preparing you for level 80 by any means.
See, at level 80, people use food buffs and elixirs for raids,
even in instances it's very rare to see anyone buffed up beyond
the natural buffs their class and the party provides. About the
only time I ever see anyone with food buffs and elixirs on
people outside of raids are when they're getting ready to solo
an elite or other "group content", and even then it's only
occasionally.

The only character that I use an Elixir on is my Druid and that is
because he is an Alchemist and has a Flask of the North. That is an
alchemist only flask that isn't consumed on use and is about half the
power of the level 80 SP flask.
The only buff food that I tend to use is the +hit one on my DPS
characters if I'm low on hit.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, folks. It makes sense, since
it's true that my kill speed is strongly tied to my cool down
speed. In addition, there are plenty of Rogue skills that just
don't make sense to use on regular quest mobs, e.g., Rupture.

I was going to say that +hit still seems like a good idea, especially
for a Rogue, but you brought that up. ;)

[unknown]

"Peter Knutsen" <***@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in message news:4bd44ee9$0$285$***@news.sunsite.dk...

short answer, caster power over health, health can be got back with extra benefit from
power

I've tended to just use Troll's Blood guardian elixirs and not use a battle elixir at
all, but recently I've become more interested in optimizing my questing speed.

...

She burns HP fairly often, so I'm thinking she should stick with the Troll's Blood for
guardian elixir. But what about the battle elixir? More firepower is nice, but I'm not
sure it is as nice as for my Druid, since she does a lot of her damage via her
Voidwalker.

Voids don't do that much damage, you may be able to get a felguard in demonology ??
for better aggro as well but a respec/dual spec means a great change in gameplay midgame
and
if you enjoy the void it isn't in any way a must have.
Why are you getting hit? see below

It seems that it is fairly simple, at the level I play on now, to combine
battle+guardian elixir because there very few elixirs available. Or am I overlooking
something?
And am I wrong about the Troll's Blood being the best guadian elixir for a Warlock? I
get 12 health regen from it, IIRC per 5 seconds, so it's not huge, but ever since I
started playing I've always had a Troll's Blood up while questing, so possibly I'll end
up dying more often without it, because it has become an ingrained part of my playstyle.

For questing I didn't bother going out of my way to get buffs, just try and use up
whatever drops
since they are usually only appropriate at that level and you usually end up with a pile
of useless lower level buffs that sell for little.
Even bandages usually go for dirt cheap. I get all 16slot bags early and usually keep
the backpack open with buffs, health etc, just pick whatever is in there as appropriate.
Most food also have significant buffs and usually also dirt cheap to keep something up
all the time. Or as long as you remember to apply them. Whatever you have in there is
going to
be useless waste of space in 10 levels, may as well burn them now.
I just saved the elixers etc for group quests, which are so often solo now.
Melee..they need whatever they can get but caster should concentrate on caster buff if an
before health..

With demon armor, drain life, glyphs - if any apply to playstyle, healthstone as a
fallback,
odd potions and food both as repair and for buffs you should rarely need extra health
the 12 hp5 is nothing, you have outgrown it.

Usually mana is more important , health can be converted to mana, and grab health off the
next mob.
Like DKs ,Warlocks tend to end near full health..or dead, an extra 60 health may matter
once a week :-).
If they are getting to you then you are pulling too many, or you are pulling aggro off the
void
give it time to build as you dot up multiple mobs.
I -think- the standard UI now has a threat indicator on the target indicator? use it to
keep threat down.

Good practise not to draw off a tank too early as well. I know it seems like it should
slow things down
but getting dots on multiple mobs without drawing threat rather than nuking first is using
the void to tank.
You can always health funnel then drain life off a mob to keep the void going.
By cycling funnel/drain you can keep a 45 void up against a significant 48-49 elite,
no adds, just dotting them sometimes.
It takes a long while but you feel like you have achieved something
epic afterwards , much more fun than simple levelling grind :-)

At 60?? you get fel armor which gives power and 2% health per 5, you start to see full
health as mana, via life tap, going to waste.