What's the use of "n" and "nn" in dungeons...

[Daniel Bleisteiner]

Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
right?

What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
type n or nn instead?

I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.

But what's that part with n and nn useful for?

[m***@web.de]

u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

[Babe Bridou]

Post by m***@web.de
u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

n = need
g = greed (= v = vendor)

When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

There are a number of other loot rule systems that you will discover
later, but this one seems to be commonly accepted (on my server, horde
side at least).

[Daniel Bleisteiner]

Post by Babe Bridou
When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
chat keys.

[Azeus]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:12 +0200, Babe Bridou

Post by Babe Bridou
When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit
the chat keys.

It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.

Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill
the fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.

[Daniel Bleisteiner]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:51:58 +0200, Azeus

Post by Azeus
It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.

So it's primarily to separate the needs from the greeds... need has a
higher priority and should be allowed to complete though. Ok, I got it.

And of course the corpses will be lootet only if no other enemy is still
alive. If someone ignores that rule he/she is propably allready identified
as ninja looter :)

Thanks to all for those infos. I think I finally see some sense in it.

[Simon Nejmann]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:51:58 +0200, Azeus

Post by Azeus
Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill
the fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.

Oh yes, people who loot in combat... >:(

Sometimes it happens by accident and you just have to accept that, but
if people makes a habit of it they deserve a /slap.

There is an extra loot rule; if a box pops up in combat you _pass_ and
sort it out later.

[ASKF]

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:51:58 +0200, Azeus

Post by Azeus
Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill
the fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.

Oh yes, people who loot in combat... >:(
Sometimes it happens by accident and you just have to accept that, but
if people makes a habit of it they deserve a /slap.
There is an extra loot rule; if a box pops up in combat you _pass_ and
sort it out later.

I usually say from the start, that I roll on anything if it's during
combat.

In my guild it's quite normal for all to roll on BoE, and then sort it
out later, because it works much faster this way.

For BoP it's the usual n or g.

It does give some problems when picking up one or two randoms for an
instance, if they don't like our way, but it's pretty rare.

[Grant]

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:51:58 +0200, Azeus

Post by Azeus
Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill
the fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.

Oh yes, people who loot in combat... >:(
Sometimes it happens by accident and you just have to accept that, but
if people makes a habit of it they deserve a /slap.
There is an extra loot rule; if a box pops up in combat you _pass_ and
sort it out later.

I sometimes loot smaller mobs (not bosses) while I'm waiting for mana/health, or
someone just pulled the mob off my fragile little mage body so I can't attack
anyways.

[Simon Nejmann]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:35:35 -0400, "Grant"

Post by Grant
I sometimes loot smaller mobs (not bosses) while I'm waiting for mana/health, or
someone just pulled the mob off my fragile little mage body so I can't attack
anyways.

I do that too sometimes. Strangely enough, as a healer, I sometimes
only have time to go loot while the others are fighting :)

If we are fighting trash mobs that go down without much trouble and
where the fights are very controlled and risk free, the tank sometimes
pull while I'm still drinking. I have enough time to finish drinking
before the tank needs a heal again, but it does mean that I never
have any out of combat time where I'm not sitting and drinking. Thus I
have to go loot while the others fight, which works out fine since I
only need to drop a heal every 10-15 seconds anyway...

The upside is, that I only ever loot corpses that are a fight or two
old, and thus I know that they don't contain any items that would pop
up the roll box and disturb the fighting guys.


Ps. Let me compliment you on taking a break whenever you gain aggro -
too many mages run around when they get beat on, making it harder for
the tanks to get it back, and then launch straight back into the fight
once the tanks finally succeed in pulling the mob off... :/

And don't get me started on those that say: "Oh, I would rather use
Cone of Cold on these 3 elites than sheep one of them" *sigh*

[Kav]

Post by Azeus

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner

Post by Babe Bridou
When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
chat keys.

It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.
Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill the
fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.

V?

I understand g but v?

v - verilly I want this?

[Azeus]

Post by Kav

Post by Azeus

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner

Post by Babe Bridou
When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
chat keys.

It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.
Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill the
fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.

V?
I understand g but v?
v - verilly I want this?

v=g

Vant to sell :)..
on my server people use the v for vendor trash.

[Kav]

Post by Azeus

Post by Kav

Post by Azeus

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner

Post by Babe Bridou
When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
chat keys.

It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.
Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill the
fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.

V?
I understand g but v?
v - verilly I want this?

v=g
Vant to sell :)..
on my server people use the v for vendor trash.

lol - ok

I was going to come back with

V = "Vis, I really cannot be using"

[Neil Jones]

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner

Post by Babe Bridou
When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
chat keys.

Oh come on - you must use other keys all the time! And surely you must
talk to your party as well.. what's complicated about hitting 'Enter G
Enter'?

If everyone does it smoothly, then *no-one* has to "decide after some
seconds of waiting" - you just watch for 5 'g's to appear in the log,
and then hit the dice icon. Simple. If even a single 'n' appears, you
hit the pass icon. what could be more easy?

Since *everyone* can use *every* item (by selling it), this system
avoids people having to miss out on profit that the rest of the party
who do roll will get anyway.

___
Neil
aka HighVis

[Noal McDonald]

Post by Neil Jones
If everyone does it smoothly, then *no-one* has to "decide after
some seconds of waiting" - you just watch for 5 'g's to appear in
the log, and then hit the dice icon. Simple. If even a single 'n'
appears, you hit the pass icon. what could be more easy?

A simple, effective solution.

Which explains why I've never seen it on Stormrage. :-D

Regards,
Noal

--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (34) on Stormrage [PvE]

[Zil]

Post by Noal McDonald
Which explains why I've never seen it on Stormrage. :-D

I'm on Stormrage too, and I've found the n/g system is becoming
quite common in groups I've been in lately.

[Daniel Bleisteiner]

Post by m***@web.de
u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

So the only use is to roll for it if nobody really needs it. If one needs
it he/she could simply roll for it... there is no need to say "n". And
what the hell is wrong if the looter gets it if nobody else wants it? I
still don't see any use for that chatting so far. I'd really prefer to
simply roll or pass.

[Simon Nejmann]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:34:46 +0200, "Daniel Bleisteiner"

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner

Post by m***@web.de
if u just pass
roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

No, this is not correct. If everybody passes it stays on the corpse
and anybody in the group can loot it - at least that is how it works
in group loot.

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
So the only use is to roll for it if nobody really needs it. If one needs
it he/she could simply roll for it... there is no need to say "n". And
what the hell is wrong if the looter gets it if nobody else wants it?

In group loot, if a corpse has an item at or above the loot threshold,
everybody in the group can loot it - only the one whose turn it is can
grab the trash on the mob, but everybody else can loot in order to pop
up the roll/pass box (and grab any money which then gets split).

If anybody rolls, the winner gets the item awarded into his/her
inventory, if nobody rolls the item stays on the corpse (and it really
wouldn't be fair to just award it to the first to loot the corpse,
since everybody can and it then would turn into one big ninja-fest).


Lastly, imagine if nobody needs 80% of the items that drop (not
uncommon later on) - what you need then is a method that speeds up the
"all pass" situation, and typing n/g then rolling if appropriate is
pretty fast for that.
But again, if you can find a better way then feel free to do so - most
don't care about the method, they just want their loot fair and
fast...

[m***@web.de]

Thats what i meant... If all pass the item gets in "free to loot"
status and first one clickin CAN get item... If u r in group u usually
play with (or guildmembers etc.) that doesnt matter... but if u dont
know the others its better to go save way and just type "n" or "g" and
then decide to roll... like this everybody gets what he need.
sure.. someone that dont need and roll anyway (and roll higher than the
one that need) will get item the difference is:
In "free loot" the person could say "oh... im sorry.. was mistake... im
so sorry..." and u dont know if he is really sorry AND lost the item.
In "n" and "g": the person that dont need roll and perhaps he dont roll
as high as the one that need... so u can blame him without loosing the
item. if he do a 2nd time, kick him out of group.
In first case u loose 2 items before u can be sure that he is a
"ninja"...

[??? Abo ???]

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner

Post by m***@web.de
u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

So the only use is to roll for it if nobody really needs it. If one
needs it he/she could simply roll for it... there is no need to say
"n". And what the hell is wrong if the looter gets it if nobody else
wants it? I still don't see any use for that chatting so far. I'd
really prefer to simply roll or pass.

Becuase if everyone says 'g' then everyone rolls. What if everyone passes?

[Five Past]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:42:36 +0100, "??? Abo ???"

Post by ??? Abo ???

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner

Post by m***@web.de
u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

So the only use is to roll for it if nobody really needs it. If one
needs it he/she could simply roll for it... there is no need to say
"n". And what the hell is wrong if the looter gets it if nobody else
wants it? I still don't see any use for that chatting so far. I'd
really prefer to simply roll or pass.

Becuase if everyone says 'g' then everyone rolls. What if everyone passes?

If everyone says 'g' everyone rolls.

If everyone says 'n' everyone rolls.

[Jack D]

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've
never met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the
items to roll. As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn"
for "need not" - right?
What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can
simply roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll.
Why should I type n or nn instead?
I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
But what's that part with n and nn useful for?

For starters I think nn is confusing, and we tend to use 'g', which
means 'greed'. This explains the reason for typing a bit. Fact is noone
rolls if they don't need, but after a while, a lot of items may drop
that noone needs. In that case you can do a greed roll, where the
highest rolls gets the item for the purpose of
selling/auctioning/disenchanting it.

In our guild we use the following rules:
- Bind on Equip: Everybody rolls *always* and if someone needs the
item, we trade it after the roll.
- Bind on Pickup: Everybody states n or g. All the n's roll. If noone
needs, everyone rolls.

On Guild Raids we use Master Looter.

[Grant]

- Bind on Equip: Everybody rolls *always* and if someone needs the item, we
trade it after the roll.
- Bind on Pickup: Everybody states n or g. All the n's roll. If noone needs,
everyone rolls.

On my guild we roll on all BOE, trade it someone needed it, and EVERYONE passes
on BOP, then /roll if we need it, or nobody needed it. Leaves you open to the
ninja looter (who will have their life made into hell if they do it), but also
gives you the chance to offer the winner of the roll money/items/favors/whatever
for it before they pick it up.

[Simon Nejmann]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:39:49 -0400, "Grant"

Post by Grant
On my guild we roll on all BOE, trade it someone needed it, and EVERYONE passes
on BOP, then /roll if we need it, or nobody needed it. Leaves you open to the
ninja looter (who will have their life made into hell if they do it), but also
gives you the chance to offer the winner of the roll money/items/favors/whatever
for it before they pick it up.

And it also gives the winner a chance to say: "Hey there Mr.
Enchanter, could you please pick that up for me and give me the shard"

[Simon Nejmann]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:51:21 +0200, "Daniel Bleisteiner"

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
right?

Right, even though I've never seen "nn" being used before - we always
use "g" (greed) or "v" (vendor). That way you can go "nn" or "gg" if
several eg. two items drop at the same time.

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
type n or nn instead?

Some times you wind up with players going "if he doesn't want, then I
could use it", that thing is hard to do with the roll/pass mechanic.
But mostly it is just because everybody know that system...

Of course, if you can think up a better system, then feel free to
suggest it to those you play with. I used to use the "roll if you
need, pass if you don't - all pass = do /roll for greed roll", but
then everybody started using the n/g system and it was just easier to
go with that instead of trying to convince everybody else.

Then after I got to the higher levels and started to raid BRS, Scholo,
and Strat the rules changed to "all pass on blue and BoP, then we talk
about it" - for green BoE it is either all roll or the group loot
threshold is simply set to blue so you just pick green items up (it is
faster + if you need you can just ask for it).

[Brian]

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read Simon Nejmann's latest post to
alt.games.warcraft.

Post by Simon Nejmann
Then after I got to the higher levels and started to raid BRS, Scholo,
and Strat the rules changed to "all pass on blue and BoP, then we talk
about it" - for green BoE it is either all roll or the group loot
threshold is simply set to blue so you just pick green items up (it is
faster + if you need you can just ask for it).

The problem with "all pass" on blue is that it leaves you wide open for
mistakes, or ninjas.

And, if you wait to loot until everything is dead, there's plenty of time
to talk it over while the roll timer goes.

That said, most of the level 60 runs I've been on end up using ML. It's a
lot smoother than Group Loot, because all the BoE junk (which is all
vendor/AH/disenchant fodder for most players at that level) gets pushed to
the end of the run, and is handled much more efficiently by lotto.

Brian

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Brian
That said, most of the level 60 runs I've been on end up using ML. It's a
lot smoother than Group Loot,

On my server, most people will refuse to play with Master Loot. It's too
buggy: The Lootmaster can take items without anyone seeing what they took.

M.

[Brian]

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read Michael Vondung's latest post to
alt.games.warcraft.

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by Brian
That said, most of the level 60 runs I've been on end up using ML. It's a
lot smoother than Group Loot,

On my server, most people will refuse to play with Master Loot. It's too
buggy: The Lootmaster can take items without anyone seeing what they took.

This is false. If you watch the chat log, you will *always* see every item
that's looted, even it the ML tries to take it without saying anything.
I've been in a lot of groups run on ML, and I've *been* the ML a couple
times.

Brian

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Brian
This is false. If you watch the chat log, you will *always* see every item
that's looted, even it the ML tries to take it without saying anything.

We tested it. There is a way for the Master Looter to take items without
anyone (except himself) seeing it in the chat log. I won't post the
details, but it works and it's not that secret. Hence why I won't play in a
group with ML. Or anyone else on my server, for that matter.

M.

[Brian]

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read Michael Vondung's latest post to
alt.games.warcraft.

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by Brian
This is false. If you watch the chat log, you will *always* see every item
that's looted, even it the ML tries to take it without saying anything.

We tested it. There is a way for the Master Looter to take items without
anyone (except himself) seeing it in the chat log. I won't post the
details, but it works and it's not that secret. Hence why I won't play in a
group with ML. Or anyone else on my server, for that matter.

I'm sorry, but I can't accept "I won't post the details" as anything other
than bullshit rumor-mongering. There is *no* way, to the best of my
knowledge, for the ML to take loot for themselves without it being posted
to the chat log. I recognize that there are bugs with ML (less than there
used to be), but it's still the best way to process loot for a raid group,
and it's used extensively by all the raid groups on my server, with very
few complaints.

Brian

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Brian
I'm sorry, but I can't accept "I won't post the details" as anything other
than bullshit rumor-mongering.

Then try it in the game and be creative. If you expect me to post exploits
here, then sorry, that's not going to happen. It is meaningless to me
whether you personally think I am "bullshit rumour-mongering", and you
don't have to believe me. When/if Blizzard fixes this, I'll post the
details, not before.

M.

[Matt Frisch]

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by Brian
I'm sorry, but I can't accept "I won't post the details" as anything other
than bullshit rumor-mongering.

Then try it in the game and be creative. If you expect me to post exploits
here, then sorry, that's not going to happen. It is meaningless to me
whether you personally think I am "bullshit rumour-mongering", and you
don't have to believe me. When/if Blizzard fixes this, I'll post the
details, not before.

Without the "bug" being known, it WON'T GET FIXED, thus allowing those
folks who know about it to abuse it for a lengthy period of time.

I'm guessing this is your first MMOG. Always in the past, rapid and
widespread publication of an abuse has lead to that abuse being almost
immediately fixed. Plus, it allows for potential victims of the abuse to be
aware of it beforehand, making it more difficult to pull off, not less.

[Mike Kohary]

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 05:01:34 +0200, Michael Vondung

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by Brian
I'm sorry, but I can't accept "I won't post the details" as
anything other than bullshit rumor-mongering.

Then try it in the game and be creative. If you expect me to post
exploits here, then sorry, that's not going to happen. It is
meaningless to me whether you personally think I am "bullshit
rumour-mongering", and you don't have to believe me. When/if
Blizzard fixes this, I'll post the details, not before.

Without the "bug" being known, it WON'T GET FIXED, thus allowing those
folks who know about it to abuse it for a lengthy period of time.
I'm guessing this is your first MMOG. Always in the past, rapid and
widespread publication of an abuse has lead to that abuse being almost
immediately fixed. Plus, it allows for potential victims of the abuse
to be aware of it beforehand, making it more difficult to pull off,
not less.

Indeed. Please tell us what this exploit is, so that we can watch out for
it.

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Simon Nejmann
Then after I got to the higher levels and started to raid BRS, Scholo,
and Strat the rules changed to "all pass on blue and BoP, then we talk
about it"

The systems used probably vary from server to server. On Khaz'goroth, in
the end-game dungeons, greens are always free for all (meaning everyone can
roll) unless someone says "need" (then they get it even after the roll),
for set items only the appropriate classes roll, others pass (if nobody
needs it, there'll be a random call), blue BoPs are "everyone who doesn't
need it passes, if all pass then random", same for BoE blues. and epic
drops outside of MC/Onyxia/Kazzak are for those who can use them (not AH),
or FFA if nobody will use it. Class-specific epics are only for the
appropriate classes. Recipes and pattern are rolled for by those who have
the profession. Chests are also a random roll.

M.

[Azeus]

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've
never met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items
to roll. As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for
"need not" - right?
What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can
simply roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why
should I type n or nn instead?
I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
But what's that part with n and nn useful for?

We use "N" ( need ) and "V" ( vend ).
I verybody types "V" you just roll.

Sometimes we agree to just all roll on anything that isn't bop ( Bind on
pickup ) and use n/v on items that are bop.

And then again sometimes you will use the term "Ninja".

[Alex]

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
right?
What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
type n or nn instead?
I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
But what's that part with n and nn useful for?
--
Daniel Bleisteiner
...spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
...und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!

It's useful for Bind on Pickup items. We (my usual group) follow these
rules:

1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
greed.
3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is Greed
4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items

I have a macro that I can spam out the rules with, and use it when the group
forms, and usually before the 1st loot boss, if I know it's coming. It stops
arguments happening about rolling 'after' the item has been won and
soulbound. Also, people need reminding when that lovely purple item drops,
and the players get the 'purple haze'. :-)

[Alex]

Post by Alex
1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then
it's theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all
roll for greed.
3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is Greed
4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items
I have a macro that I can spam out the rules with, and use it when the
group forms, and usually before the 1st loot boss, if I know it's coming.
It stops arguments happening about rolling 'after' the item has been won
and soulbound. Also, people need reminding when that lovely purple item
drops, and the players get the 'purple haze'. :-)

Oh, and I forgot one rule: "No looting in Combat." Not only is it rude to be
looting and not helping, it's distracting.

[mikel]

Post by Alex

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
right?
What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
type n or nn instead?
I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
But what's that part with n and nn useful for?
--
Daniel Bleisteiner
...spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
...und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!

It's useful for Bind on Pickup items. We (my usual group) follow these

Your rules are close to what I've seen, too. Although, in high-level
raid instances, the rules are different, for several reasons (there are
lots more people; the raids take multiple hours to complete, and people
want things to move along efficiently; people are *very* invested in the
particular things they are trying to get, to the tune of many many hours
of effort and big piles of gold in expenses; and so on).

Post by Alex
1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
greed.

Raid rules are many times different from this. I've seen various
schemes, but generally they are intended to make things fast without
pissing people off. With a lot of people in a long instance run, n/g
looting is often seen as too time-consuming.

Post by Alex
3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is Greed

That's what I'm used to, where "will be used" means you are going to
equip and use it *right now*. Otherwise, it's greed.

Post by Alex
4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items

Yes, though I have seen some rather dumb controversies over exactly what
the words "class specific" mean. You can argue that it means sets like
Valor and Magister's; on the other hand, I've seen people argue in all
apparent sincerity that a cloth-wearer should not be allowed to roll on
a cloak that has a stamina buff.

[Noal McDonald]

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
greed.

Raid rules are many times different from this.

Not by much.

Everyone gets one blue, one set item and one quest item (Pristine Hide,
Frayed Abomination Stitching, etc.). (sometimes it's one blue or one
set item.) Green BoPs count as blues for this purpose. Once you've got
your quota, you don't roll dice anymore.
Everyone rolls on all green BoEs.
If everybody passes, everyone uses /random to determine the winner.
Once that's done, the winner loots, someone else loots and DEs for
them, or (rarely) someone offers to buy the item from the winner.

Regards,
Noal

--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (34) on Stormrage [PvE]

[mikel]

Post by Noal McDonald

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
greed.

Raid rules are many times different from this.

Not by much.

I've seen some other rules in repeated use.

Post by Noal McDonald
Everyone gets one blue, one set item and one quest item (Pristine Hide,
Frayed Abomination Stitching, etc.). (sometimes it's one blue or one
set item.) Green BoPs count as blues for this purpose. Once you've got
your quota, you don't roll dice anymore.
Everyone rolls on all green BoEs.

I've seen systems in which no one except the raid leader ever rolls.
I've seen systems in which all greens, regardless of whether they are
BOP, are looted by the current person in round-robin (with a different
rule in effect for bosses). Both were meant to make things go faster,
which they did.

Post by Noal McDonald
If everybody passes, everyone uses /random to determine the winner.
Once that's done, the winner loots, someone else loots and DEs for
them, or (rarely) someone offers to buy the item from the winner.

Yes, this is common, but I've also seen rules under which no one ever
uses /random, on the grounds that it takes too long. For example, it's
faster for the raid leader to consult a loot order randomly determined
once at the beginning than to wait for everyone to /random every time
anything interesting comes up.

No doubt people will have objections, but I've noticed that in raids
people are more interested in finding out what the loot rules are going
to be than in pushing for their favorite ones. I think it's difficult
enough to arrange for a raid in the first place, and loot fights take so
much of the fun out of the game, that people tend to be willing to
accept even loot rules they don't like as long as it gets things under way.

[Brian]

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read Noal McDonald's latest post to
alt.games.warcraft.

Post by Noal McDonald

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
greed.

Raid rules are many times different from this.

Not by much.

Every instance I've ever run with more than 5 people was run on Master
Loot. Even the Ironforge pickups. Everything BoE, including blue sets and
spell books, goes to the ML for lotto. BoP gets done by standard N/G
rules, and /random. 100 for need, 1000 for greed. So the ML calls out the
boss loot, everyone rolls. If anyone rolls need, closest to 100 takes. If
no one needs, then highest greed takes it. If anyone in the party is an
enchanter, then they get the loot first, and the greed roll is for the
shard.

When the run has ended, and all bosses are dead, we have the lotto. In the
good groups, if you get a blue you stop rolling on blue. If you get a
green, you stop rolling on green until all have one. Class sets go first
priority to the right class, but if none need then it's an open roll.
(I've seen plenty of mages wearing Devout, and Warlocks wearing Magister's,
because even the "wrong" set is still better than what they used to have.)

I like the system, personally, because the raid is never interrupted by
looting until all the way at the end of the run. It gives people more
incentive to stick to the end of the run, instead of getting their loot
from an early boss and bugging out. (I've seen it happen. Pisses me off
to no end.) Overall, the whole thing runs faster and smoother, and it's a
lot easier to tell who has gotten how much loot, so that you get a more
equal distribution. Someone that won boss loot on need might pass on a
blue BoE during the lotto, even though they would've rolled if it came up
earlier in the run, before their boss.

Brian

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Brian
Every instance I've ever run with more than 5 people was run on Master
Loot.

I honestly have never seen Master Loot being used, and whenever the
suggestion came up, everyone was vehemmently against it. As I said, it's
bugged ... the lootmaster can take things for himself and it won't show on
anybody's screen. That's how ninjas operate. I'd also never play in a party
with ML, but never faced the situation where I was expected to, either.

Interesting how different server communities use completely different
rulesets.

M.

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Noal McDonald
Everyone gets one blue, one set item and one quest item (Pristine Hide,
Frayed Abomination Stitching, etc.). (sometimes it's one blue or one
set item.) Green BoPs count as blues for this purpose. Once you've got
your quota, you don't roll dice anymore.

Never seen that system, and would personal not enjoy it, since it requires
too much attention. :) UBRS runs and such get boring after you have done
many dozens, and I usually don't keep track of what I won. I pay attention
not to roll on anything that anyone else needs, and that's it.

M.

[ASKF]

[snip]

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is Greed

That's what I'm used to, where "will be used" means you are going to
equip and use it *right now*. Otherwise, it's greed.

I can find a lot of situations where it wouldn't benefit the group if I
switched to use the items. I got items with +healing, and I'm healing a
lot in instances, but I don't use them for soloing. Same with weapons,
for instances I always use 1h + shield, while I often switch to 2h when
soloing (depending on the mobs).

I don't mind equiping the items, so the party can see I don't intend to
put it on AH, but demanding that I use it for the rest of the time I'm
in the group is just plain stupidity.

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items

Yes, though I have seen some rather dumb controversies over exactly what
the words "class specific" mean. You can argue that it means sets like
Valor and Magister's; on the other hand, I've seen people argue in all
apparent sincerity that a cloth-wearer should not be allowed to roll on
a cloak that has a stamina buff.

The hybrid classes are having the worst time, if it's a melee item, it's
for hunters, warriors or rogues, if it's a caster item it's for warlock,
mage and priest.

Especially Shamans are having problems with peoples prejudices against
the class, since casters think of us as a mainly melee class, because we
got mail armor, and melee classes think of us as casters, because of our
damage spells.

[mikel]

Post by ASKF
[snip]

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is Greed

That's what I'm used to, where "will be used" means you are going to
equip and use it *right now*. Otherwise, it's greed.

I can find a lot of situations where it wouldn't benefit the group if I
switched to use the items. I got items with +healing, and I'm healing a
lot in instances, but I don't use them for soloing. Same with weapons,
for instances I always use 1h + shield, while I often switch to 2h when
soloing (depending on the mobs).
I don't mind equiping the items, so the party can see I don't intend to
put it on AH, but demanding that I use it for the rest of the time I'm
in the group is just plain stupidity.

It's arguably stupid, and certainly simplistic, but it creates a clear
and unambiguous definition of "need". Some people exploit ambiguities in
impolite ways; others adapt to that by making (arguably stupid) rules
that remove the ambiguities. This is true in a wider world than just in
WoW :-).

For my own purposes most discussion of looting rules is academic; I
don't care very much what the rules are because I don't get most of my
fun out of obtaining uber loot, and farming generates enough money and
items to keep me happy. All I really care about (and I've seen this
attitude in lots of other people) is that the rules be clear and well
understood so we don't get any stupid loot fights.

Post by ASKF

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items

Yes, though I have seen some rather dumb controversies over exactly what
the words "class specific" mean. You can argue that it means sets like
Valor and Magister's; on the other hand, I've seen people argue in all
apparent sincerity that a cloth-wearer should not be allowed to roll on
a cloak that has a stamina buff.

The hybrid classes are having the worst time, if it's a melee item, it's
for hunters, warriors or rogues, if it's a caster item it's for warlock,
mage and priest.
Especially Shamans are having problems with peoples prejudices against
the class, since casters think of us as a mainly melee class, because we
got mail armor, and melee classes think of us as casters, because of our
damage spells.

Yes. Druids, shamans, and to a lesser extent hunters suffer some from
this kind of stuff. It does bleed over onto other classes, though; for
example, high intelligence and stamina is a solid strategy for mages and
warlocks (I grouped with a warlock once who had the most hit points in
the party -- this might seem crazy until you consider spells like
Hellfire), but as I say I have seen a bitter argument break out over
whether a spellcaster should be allowed to roll on a stamina buff.

[ASKF]

[snip]

Post by mikel
For my own purposes most discussion of looting rules is academic; I
don't care very much what the rules are because I don't get most of my
fun out of obtaining uber loot, and farming generates enough money and
items to keep me happy. All I really care about (and I've seen this
attitude in lots of other people) is that the rules be clear and well
understood so we don't get any stupid loot fights.

We got the same view on the stuff, I see.

I have often been nice, and passed on stuff that I knew other people
wanted, even though I could use it myself. Especially when it would only
be a minor upgrade for me, while it could be a major upgrade for the
other. Because of this I rarely have any problems getting someone to
help me when I need it, and when grouping with them, they often tell the
others to pass on things they know I need.

Post by mikel

Post by ASKF

Post by mikel

Post by Alex
4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items

Yes, though I have seen some rather dumb controversies over exactly what
the words "class specific" mean. You can argue that it means sets like
Valor and Magister's; on the other hand, I've seen people argue in all
apparent sincerity that a cloth-wearer should not be allowed to roll on
a cloak that has a stamina buff.

The hybrid classes are having the worst time, if it's a melee item, it's
for hunters, warriors or rogues, if it's a caster item it's for warlock,
mage and priest.
Especially Shamans are having problems with peoples prejudices against
the class, since casters think of us as a mainly melee class, because we
got mail armor, and melee classes think of us as casters, because of our
damage spells.

Yes. Druids, shamans, and to a lesser extent hunters suffer some from
this kind of stuff. It does bleed over onto other classes, though; for
example, high intelligence and stamina is a solid strategy for mages and
warlocks (I grouped with a warlock once who had the most hit points in
the party -- this might seem crazy until you consider spells like
Hellfire), but as I say I have seen a bitter argument break out over
whether a spellcaster should be allowed to roll on a stamina buff.

It's funny in a sad way, because every class can use and benifit from
+stam. Most casters even have a priority like this:
int/stam/spirit/agi/str.

A +stam add more relative health to a caster, than to a warrior, and
that can be just as good an argument as any.

A warrior friend of mine are saying that he needs +int items, because it
helps him to raise his weapon and defence skill faster...

[wolfing]

Why not just use the 'Need before greed' loot option from the game?

[David Carson]

Post by wolfing
Why not just use the 'Need before greed' loot option from the game?

Because it's completely useless.

Cheers!
David...

[Jack D]

Post by wolfing
Why not just use the 'Need before greed' loot option from the game?

Because it isn't really 'need before greed' but 'can use before greed'...

[wolfing]

I don't understand, what's wrong with that? I'd rather have that than
just random on all greens, mages don't get the swords and warriors
don't get the wands, what's the problem?

[mikel]

Post by wolfing
I don't understand, what's wrong with that? I'd rather have that than
just random on all greens, mages don't get the swords and warriors
don't get the wands, what's the problem?

Well, for example, if you just use need before greed and roll on
everything, warriors take cloth items, and that makes priests and mages
unhappy. So people tend not to do that.

[Simon Nejmann]

Post by wolfing
I don't understand, what's wrong with that? I'd rather have that than
just random on all greens, mages don't get the swords and warriors
don't get the wands, what's the problem?

Actually under Blizzard's NbG rules mages do get the swords...

The problem is that warriors get everything but wands - warriors can
equip cloth if they want, you know.
While mages for example miss out on; leather, mail, plate, axes, guns,
bows, crossbows, fist weapons, maces, polearms, thrown weapons,
two-handed axes, two-handed swords, and two-handed maces.


And now that we are at swords, how about this one - mage or warrior
weapon?

Inventor's Focal Sword
Binds when picked up
One-Hand Sword
54 - 101 Damage Speed 2.20
(35.2 damage per second)
+6 Intellect
Durability 90 / 90
Requires Level 48
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike with spells by
1%.

[wolfing]

Ah gotcha, so it's just a stupid codification. Just because a warrior
"can" use cloth shouldn't mean they should get cloth armor. They
should have implemented it better, that's just stupid coding.
I mean, NBG can be complicated or impossible to code to cover every
single item, like the sword you mentioned which is obviously a caster
item (didn't know mages could learn 1handed sword). But it could be
better implemented: cloth goes to casters, leather goes to
rogues/druids/shaman (until shaman gets mail), mail goes to
warriors/paladins/shaman (after shaman gets mail).
A little more complicated on ranged weapons, as many classes can use
them, although it's only a primary weapon for hunters.

Now I see why NBG in WoW must be done manually.

[P***@youeatpoopy.com]

Post by wolfing
Ah gotcha, so it's just a stupid codification. Just because a warrior
"can" use cloth shouldn't mean they should get cloth armor. They
should have implemented it better, that's just stupid coding.
I mean, NBG can be complicated or impossible to code to cover every
single item, like the sword you mentioned which is obviously a caster
item (didn't know mages could learn 1handed sword). But it could be
better implemented: cloth goes to casters, leather goes to
rogues/druids/shaman (until shaman gets mail), mail goes to
warriors/paladins/shaman (after shaman gets mail).

It's a little more complicated then that because characters can have a
very reasonable case for getting armor that is lighter then their best
possible type. While warriors would be nuts to ditch plate, classes
that try to avoid melee combat (Ranged DPS and healers basically) often
have a very legitimate case for getting lighter armor pieces that help
their role. For example, its quite reasonable for healer-specced
paladins, druids, and shamans to take weaker armor with good +Int or
caster bonuses, since it can be hard to get the right bonuses on plate
or mail. Hunters as well can use leather pieces which augment their
ranged capabilities.

[Brian]

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he read ***@youeatpoopy.com's latest post
to alt.games.warcraft.

Post by P***@youeatpoopy.com
It's a little more complicated then that because characters can have a
very reasonable case for getting armor that is lighter then their best
possible type. While warriors would be nuts to ditch plate, classes
that try to avoid melee combat (Ranged DPS and healers basically) often
have a very legitimate case for getting lighter armor pieces that help
their role. For example, its quite reasonable for healer-specced
paladins, druids, and shamans to take weaker armor with good +Int or
caster bonuses, since it can be hard to get the right bonuses on plate
or mail. Hunters as well can use leather pieces which augment their
ranged capabilities.

I've got a few pieces in my Paladin's bank that are blatant Shaman gear,
high-int mail. I know a level 60 hunter that still wears a few rogue
pieces, because he loves the +agi, +crit.

That said, if I was in a group with a rogue, I'd pretty pretty annoyed at a
hunter rolling on good leather, unless the rogue had already said he didn't
need.

Brian

[feides]

Okay n is for need; nn is for need both; v is for vendor, what is the d; r ;
R and ooo for? If two items drop and I only need the second one but my alt
can use the first one, is the n cubed or should I just calculate the square
root? confused yet? Just use the built in roll rules, let the whiners
whine about not getting an item. Everything else is just nonsense.

Post by Daniel Bleisteiner
Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
right?
What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
type n or nn instead?
I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
But what's that part with n and nn useful for?
--
Daniel Bleisteiner
...spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
...und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!

[Mike in Mystic]

*annoyed vent switch turned ON"

Why can't people that have played this game for many hundreds of hours (I'm
talking about lvl 60's for the most part) figure out *commonly accepted*
loot procedures, and thus remove any NEED to even discuss it any more?

I would say this is becoming the #1 benefit for being in a guild. Our loot
rules (which are 95% the same as anyone elses, by the way) are written down,
posted on a website, and everyone is expected to know them. Thus, we rarely
have to mention them when going on raids. Oh the joy.

Here they are: If an item says "Bind on Equip" ROLL (that means YOU,
everyone, regardless of WHAT it is). If an item is "Bind on Pickup" WAIT,
THINK, DISCUSS. The only exceptions are certain class specific items and
item sets, which everyone knows about anyway. Could it be any simpler?

The problem is, there are STILL TONS of lvl 60 ppl that act like they have
never grouped with anyone before and actually try to say they "didn't know I
can't roll on a BoP item, sorry" with a straight face.

It just amazes me that even after having run LBRS/UBRS/Scholo/Strath/MC a
combination of greater than 150X at least, that loot rules still are brought
up without fail, and there is almost always some discussion about them.

*annoyed vent switch turned OFF*

[Simon Nejmann]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:04:47 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"

Post by Mike in Mystic
Our loot
rules (which are 95% the same as anyone elses, by the way) are written down,
posted on a website, and everyone is expected to know them. Thus, we rarely
have to mention them when going on raids. Oh the joy.

Good idea.

Post by Mike in Mystic
Here they are: If an item says "Bind on Equip" ROLL (that means YOU,
everyone, regardless of WHAT it is).

Even on blue and better items?
Eg. on a resent LBRS raid Glowing Brightwood Staff dropped - it is
BoE, but also a OMG!! item for most casters - mage won it btw. (Why
not meeee :( *snif*)

As a side note, that was a rather amazing raid loot-wise - we got 2
hunter set items, 1 warlock, 1 mage, 1 druid, 1 shaman, Annihilator
plans, and the aforementioned Glowing Brightwood Staff. :)

Post by Mike in Mystic
If an item is "Bind on Pickup" WAIT,
THINK, DISCUSS. The only exceptions are certain class specific items and
item sets, which everyone knows about anyway. Could it be any simpler?

Ours just say: "Pass on BoP and blue+" which amounts to about the same
as yours - in fact we often set looting threshold to blue...

[David Carson]

Post by Simon Nejmann
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:04:47 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"

Post by Mike in Mystic
Here they are: If an item says "Bind on Equip" ROLL (that means YOU,
everyone, regardless of WHAT it is).

Even on blue and better items?
Eg. on a resent LBRS raid Glowing Brightwood Staff dropped - it is
BoE, but also a OMG!! item for most casters - mage won it btw. (Why
not meeee :( *snif*)

Yes. It's a controversial position, but I think everyone should always
roll on BoE epics, for two reasons:

#1 - these items are "OMG!!" items for _everyone_, because they can be
sold in the AH for many hundreds of gold. In fact I'd venture to say
that the average Warrior would see more benefit from winning a
Brightwood, selling it, and buying assorted upgrades, than a Mage would
from winning it and equipping it.

#2 - if you only allow "need" rolls, you are absolutely 100% guaranteed
to have a shitfight about who _really_ "needs" it. Most likely with pure
classes demanding that hybrids not be allowed to roll. It's really not
worth the pain.

Cheers!
David...

[Michael Vondung]

Post by David Carson
#1 - these items are "OMG!!" items for _everyone_, because they can be
sold in the AH for many hundreds of gold. In fact I'd venture to say
that the average Warrior would see more benefit from winning a
Brightwood, selling it, and buying assorted upgrades, than a Mage would
from winning it and equipping it.

Well, yes, that's controversial. I have passed on epic plate leggins, on
epic plate shoulders, on an epic sword, and on the dwarven hand cannon.
Yes, I'd expect a fighter type to pass on a brightwood staff if I didn't
already have one. (I bought mine.) All the epics I have seen drop went to
someone else, and I don't find it unfair.

M.

[Michael Vondung]

Post by Mike in Mystic
Here they are: If an item says "Bind on Equip" ROLL (that means YOU,
everyone, regardless of WHAT it is). If an item is "Bind on Pickup" WAIT,
THINK, DISCUSS. The only exceptions are certain class specific items and
item sets, which everyone knows about anyway. Could it be any simpler?

Not all set items are BoP. That's why it can't be quite as simple as
"regardless of what it is". :)

M.

[Mike in Mystic]

I said that is one of the exceptions. And in those cases (especially when
it is a 100% guild populated raid), you only have to point out that the item
is a set and if someone there needs it the person almost always has
willingly given the item to the other person. I guess one of the other
details is that we require a person that says "need" to equip the item right
there and show it off to everyone. If someone fails to do this, they are
booted from the guild and put on our "shit list" indefinately. This is
usually a good way to self-police.

As for the epic drops that are BoE (or any of the uber things), we usually
have a "I really could use that" discussion. Most of my guildies understand
that if a purple item drops that is worth 1000 gold, they can't simply
expect some non-using class to simply say "no biggie, take it". I've paid
my own guildie as much as 500 gold for an item I really wanted and never
would expect them to simply give it away for nothing if they won the roll
fair and square.

This kind of good citizenship pays off, as one day I gave up a reallyl nice
2H weapon that I won to another warrior in Scholomance and a few days later
when we were both in a group there (and we were the only warriors) the valor
helm dropped and he passed (even though he didn't have it yet) and let me
win. I was like "WTF MAN - you need that too" and he said, he wanted to
show his appreciation. I was pretty amazed and very proud to be in this
kind of guild, where people don't simply go "greed greed greed mine mine
mine" all the time and actually help each other, even to their own, at face
value, detriment.

Our guild leader is also an amazingly selfless guy. He is also a warrior
(we have something like 10 lvl 60 warriors) and he went to the trouble to
get the blood of innocents that is needed to get the boss that drops the
valor boots. He's been doing that run over and over with every high lvl
warrior (not just 60s, either) in scholomance so that we all get the boots.

Anyway.....my point is, I guess, that trust plays a big part in looting in
this game, and once you have a good group of ppl that you don't have to
stress about ninja-behavior, it really does take one of the annoying stress
points out of the game and makes it even better.

Mike

Post by Michael Vondung

Post by Mike in Mystic
Here they are: If an item says "Bind on Equip" ROLL (that means YOU,
everyone, regardless of WHAT it is). If an item is "Bind on Pickup" WAIT,
THINK, DISCUSS. The only exceptions are certain class specific items and
item sets, which everyone knows about anyway. Could it be any simpler?

Not all set items are BoP. That's why it can't be quite as simple as
"regardless of what it is". :)
M.
--
http://www.clamwin.com/