Twink

[Shay]

Okay, I just Have to know... before I die of lack of oxygen from
giggling. What realm full of midwestern farm boys was tricked by a
crafty gay activist group into using the term 'twink' for alts they've
given gold to to trick out with really nice gear. I had a scruffy,
chiseled faced warrior last night announce to me "I'm a twink". What am
I supposed to say to that?! I could barely breath from laughing. "Gee,
you seemed more bearish to me Hon...."

And to whoever taught them that... Tsk, tsk... truly evil. Don't pick
on Opie dear, it's not sporting :)

~Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrasza

[Firian]

Post by Shay
Okay, I just Have to know... before I die of lack of oxygen from
giggling. What realm full of midwestern farm boys was tricked by a
crafty gay activist group into using the term 'twink' for alts they've
given gold to to trick out with really nice gear. I had a scruffy,
chiseled faced warrior last night announce to me "I'm a twink". What am
I supposed to say to that?! I could barely breath from laughing. "Gee,
you seemed more bearish to me Hon...."
And to whoever taught them that... Tsk, tsk... truly evil. Don't pick
on Opie dear, it's not sporting :)

"Twink" has been used since at least my Everquest days to describe someone
wearing stuff they normally couldn't afford or get on their own. Not quite
as meaningful in WoW, since in EQ, a level 1 could wear something that
normally a level 50 would be wearing, but still similar. But yes, when I
first encountered the term in EQ, I wondered the same thing lol.

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Firian
"Twink" has been used since at least my Everquest days to describe someone
wearing stuff they normally couldn't afford or get on their own. Not quite
as meaningful in WoW, since in EQ, a level 1 could wear something that
normally a level 50 would be wearing, but still similar. But yes, when I
first encountered the term in EQ, I wondered the same thing lol.

The term goes back a *lot* further than EQ, even pre-UO :) I first
saw it in the early-90s while MU*ing and it was an established word
at the time.

It implies a character that is getting 'unfair' advantages that they
shouldn't normally have access to. For instance, if I make an 'alt'
(to use the WoW lingo) and fire them a bunch of gold and/or other stuff
to help them get started, that's twinking. If I start the game and
my friends who already play help me get rolling, that's twinking. Etc
etc etc etc.

As with many terms which have existed for a long time in the MMO (and MU*)
world, WoW players seem to have felt the need to horribly mutilate the
definition and it seems to have devolved into meaning simply "wearing good
gear for your level". Then again, the extreme majority of WoW players
had never played *any* MMO before, much less a MU*, so I suspect a lot
of these definition changes (e.g. Carebear, Ganking, etc) are simply
a matter of pure ignorance.

(yes, this is a sore subject for me, for whatever reason it really puts
me in 'bitchy mode', hah).

FWIW, the wikipedia entry (which seems pretty agreeable to me):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking

[Firian]

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
The term goes back a *lot* further than EQ, even pre-UO :) I first
saw it in the early-90s while MU*ing and it was an established word
at the time.

I don't remember the term from my MU*ing days (did MUDs, MOOs, MUSHes, maybe
one or two MUXes in my time), but then again, my MUDding was very limited,
and it just wouldn't apply for the MOOs and MUSHes I was on.

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
It implies a character that is getting 'unfair' advantages that they
shouldn't normally have access to. For instance, if I make an 'alt'
(to use the WoW lingo) and fire them a bunch of gold and/or other stuff
to help them get started, that's twinking. If I start the game and
my friends who already play help me get rolling, that's twinking. Etc
etc etc etc.
As with many terms which have existed for a long time in the MMO (and MU*)
world, WoW players seem to have felt the need to horribly mutilate the
definition and it seems to have devolved into meaning simply "wearing good
gear for your level". Then again, the extreme majority of WoW players
had never played *any* MMO before, much less a MU*, so I suspect a lot
of these definition changes (e.g. Carebear, Ganking, etc) are simply
a matter of pure ignorance.

I wouldn't say the term has been mutilated all that much; it still implies
an unfair advantage for whatever reason. I would say, if anything, the term
has evolved or been refined. :) A living language evolves, and words change
meaning over the years. Hence why there are denotations (strict definitions)
and connotations (what the majority takes the word to mean).

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
(yes, this is a sore subject for me, for whatever reason it really puts
me in 'bitchy mode', hah).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking

About the only things that put me in a bitchy mode these days, at least in
reference to WoW, is misspelling "rogue" as "rouge", and all the Chuck
Conner crap going on in the LFG channel. Otherwise, I'm a bit more laid
back. :)

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Firian
About the only things that put me in a bitchy mode these days, at least in
reference to WoW, is misspelling "rogue" as "rouge", and all the Chuck

We have a rogue in our guild named Rouge. I laughed myself silly the first
time I saw her name in the roster. *

[Firian]

Post by pv+ (PV)

Post by Firian
About the only things that put me in a bitchy mode these days, at least in
reference to WoW, is misspelling "rogue" as "rouge", and all the Chuck

We have a rogue in our guild named Rouge. I laughed myself silly the first
time I saw her name in the roster. *

Now that _is_ funny! Gotta love someone who will intentionally do that. :)

[echinacea]

Post by Firian
About the only things that put me in a bitchy mode these days, at least in
reference to WoW, is misspelling "rogue" as "rouge", and all the Chuck
Conner crap going on in the LFG channel.

The only thing Fear has to fear is Chuck Norris.

[Firian]

Post by echinacea

Post by Firian
About the only things that put me in a bitchy mode these days, at least in
reference to WoW, is misspelling "rogue" as "rouge", and all the Chuck
Conner crap going on in the LFG channel.

The only thing Fear has to fear is Chuck Norris.

LOL, I didn't even notice I'd called him Chuck Conner in my post...guess I
was just so traumatized by it all! Oy vey! hehe

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Firian
I don't remember the term from my MU*ing days (did MUDs, MOOs, MUSHes, maybe
one or two MUXes in my time), but then again, my MUDding was very limited,
and it just wouldn't apply for the MOOs and MUSHes I was on.

The one I mainly played on was more oriented towards bitching about
"munchkins", but you'd sometimes hear people say 'twink' instead. I know
that munchkin def goes back to pen & paper type stuff, I suspect twink
does as well.

Post by Firian
I wouldn't say the term has been mutilated all that much; it still implies
an unfair advantage for whatever reason. I would say, if anything, the term
has evolved or been refined. :) A living language evolves, and words change
meaning over the years. Hence why there are denotations (strict definitions)

Sometimes people should just get their own danmed new word though
(e.g. hack vs. crack). There is a *huge* difference between someone
who actually earned all the 'twink blue items' at level 19 and someone
who was handed a pile of gold - the word 'twink' ceases to show which
case it is.

one thing i've noticed in these games is that in general, terms which
carry negative connotations tend to be genericized (is that a word? hah)
to lose the negativity. gank, twink, etc.

Post by Firian
reference to WoW, is misspelling "rogue" as "rouge", and all the Chuck

Hah, that makes me laugh . Particularly when people pick up on it
in chat and make jokes at the person.

[Firian]

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org

Post by Firian
I wouldn't say the term has been mutilated all that much; it still implies
an unfair advantage for whatever reason. I would say, if anything, the term
has evolved or been refined. :) A living language evolves, and words change
meaning over the years. Hence why there are denotations (strict definitions)

Sometimes people should just get their own danmed new word though
(e.g. hack vs. crack). There is a *huge* difference between someone
who actually earned all the 'twink blue items' at level 19 and someone
who was handed a pile of gold - the word 'twink' ceases to show which
case it is.

That's a good point. Hmm, wonder what word to call my troll priest; he's
definitely twinked out from a) getting gold from Bovinis (my 60 druid) and
b) being taken through instances by my friend, Bulkie (60 hunter) to get BoP
blues, just like Bovinis took Bulkie's (then level 15) orc warrior through
WC to get Kresh's Back. Maybe we need a third word as well to describe a
character taken through instances for blue BoPs. :) Or perhaps a fourth word
to describe one who does that but can't even wear the items yet (my priest
has the Robes of Arugal, the Belt of Arugal, and the Feline Mantle, but
needs a few more levels before being able to wear them).

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Firian
That's a good point. Hmm, wonder what word to call my troll priest; he's
definitely twinked out from a) getting gold from Bovinis (my 60 druid) and
b) being taken through instances by my friend, Bulkie (60 hunter) to get BoP
blues, just like Bovinis took Bulkie's (then level 15) orc warrior through
WC to get Kresh's Back. Maybe we need a third word as well to describe a
character taken through instances for blue BoPs. :) Or perhaps a fourth word
to describe one who does that but can't even wear the items yet (my priest
has the Robes of Arugal, the Belt of Arugal, and the Feline Mantle, but
needs a few more levels before being able to wear them).

I'd say that those are all examples of twinking, as they are all situations
which carry the "negative connotation" (keeping in mind that not everyone
will ever even see those actions as negative).

The only real issue I take w/ the contemporary usage is the case of people
who quite literally amass the uber items on their own through "normal"
play (I came across someone on my server in the lvl 19 twink bracket who
(well, at least he claims) used that char as his main and played the AH
to acquire the money to get the money to get all the various goodies -
people referred to him as a 'twink', but I'd disagree).

[Firian]

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org

Post by Firian
That's a good point. Hmm, wonder what word to call my troll priest; he's
definitely twinked out from a) getting gold from Bovinis (my 60 druid) and
b) being taken through instances by my friend, Bulkie (60 hunter) to get BoP
blues, just like Bovinis took Bulkie's (then level 15) orc warrior through
WC to get Kresh's Back. Maybe we need a third word as well to describe a
character taken through instances for blue BoPs. :) Or perhaps a fourth word
to describe one who does that but can't even wear the items yet (my priest
has the Robes of Arugal, the Belt of Arugal, and the Feline Mantle, but
needs a few more levels before being able to wear them).

I'd say that those are all examples of twinking, as they are all situations
which carry the "negative connotation" (keeping in mind that not everyone
will ever even see those actions as negative).
The only real issue I take w/ the contemporary usage is the case of people
who quite literally amass the uber items on their own through "normal"
play (I came across someone on my server in the lvl 19 twink bracket who
(well, at least he claims) used that char as his main and played the AH
to acquire the money to get the money to get all the various goodies -
people referred to him as a 'twink', but I'd disagree).

I would agree too, but...just seeing him on the streets of Orgrimmar (or
where ever), I wouldn't know that he acquired them through his own
inventiveness, so my first thought, if I were to inspect him and see nice
gear, would be "twink" (although, like you said, not everyone views that as
negative...I certainly don't automatically connotate it negative
generically, only situationally).

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Shay
Okay, I just Have to know... before I die of lack of oxygen from
giggling. What realm full of midwestern farm boys was tricked by a
crafty gay activist group into using the term 'twink' for alts they've

Here's a clue you might have missed - not all words mean only what you
think they do.

Still, sometimes it's fun. I wear [Kezan's Taint] on my warlock, and in
volatile moments I threaten to show people my taint if they don't shut up. *

[Shay]

Post by pv+ (PV)
Here's a clue you might have missed - not all words mean only what you
think they do.

Um... That's rather what the post was about - the etymology of the
alternate meaning. So not missed, but thank you. I was just wondering
how or why someone chose to use a word with a standard and slang
meaning already - as there is usually some, at least tenous, connection
to the original definition and the patois. If someone saw a pretty car
drive by and said "wow, that car's So felatio", I'd be just as
mystified as to where they learned that.

"twink/ ...gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs
(compare mainstream "chick")."

Hence my confusion as to the origin of the patois - as it already
belonged to a distinct group. Ah well, guess it will remain a mystery.
Still think it was a practical joke on some gamer's part....

Post by pv+ (PV)
Still, sometimes it's fun. I wear [Kezan's Taint] on my warlock, and in
volatile moments I threaten to show people my taint if they don't shut up.

Evil fun with double entendres..... :)

~ Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrasza

[Shay]

Couldn't let this one rest unanswered. After much digging...

The origin was in 1978 when someone in San Francisco climbed through a
courthouse window and shot several people. He got off on lesser charges
than murder using the defense that he had an untreated mental illness
and suffered from depression that caused him to act in a way he
wouldn't normally.

The media misreported the trial (because of some parenthetical remarks
made by a doctor at the trial that high sugar levels could have caused
his irrationality) and reported that he was not in control of his
actions because of a too high sugar intake. This later morphed into
reports that he ate too many twinkies (no kidding here - the media was
creative). The defensive team's technique then entered the English
lexicon as the "Twinky Defense": the efforts of criminals to avoid
responsibility for their actions by claiming that some external force
beyond their control had caused them to act the way they had.

It entered online terminology originally during the old MUSHes and
originally meant: someone in a losing position that lashes out
stupidly.

It later evolved into simply meaning a bad player.

A four year old definition from an online colloquilism site used to
read: On MU* systems that specialize in role-playing, refers to
behavior of a (usually inexperienced) player that either ignores rules
or social convention, or disrupts the natural flow of a scene to show
of super powers.

That gradually transitioned to players skirting rules and conventions
to give themselves super powers either to make up for lack of skill or
just to be more powerful than others their level.

Which leads into its current definition - someone who is equipping
their toon through outside means to achieve a competitive advantage.
Although it's now morphed to be less derogatory as it can include
people guilds have equipped to help starting players and things.

~Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrasza

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Shay
The origin was in 1978 when someone in San Francisco climbed through a
courthouse window and shot several people. He got off on lesser charges
than murder using the defense that he had an untreated mental illness
and suffered from depression that caused him to act in a way he
wouldn't normally.

Immortalized by the Dead Kennedys song "I fought the law" (not a pure
cover of the real version). That's Dan White who shot the mayor and
a prominent gay politician.

Jello Biafra, when he ran for mayor, had a proposal to erect a statue
of Dan White and then sell tomatoes for people to throw at it.

[AlphaWoolf]

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org

Post by Shay
The origin was in 1978 when someone in San Francisco climbed through a
courthouse window and shot several people. He got off on lesser charges
than murder using the defense that he had an untreated mental illness
and suffered from depression that caused him to act in a way he
wouldn't normally.

Immortalized by the Dead Kennedys song "I fought the law" (not a pure
cover of the real version). That's Dan White who shot the mayor and
a prominent gay politician.
Jello Biafra, when he ran for mayor, had a proposal to erect a statue
of Dan White and then sell tomatoes for people to throw at it.

Cool, I've had that record (well, CD now) for years but didn't know
there was a story behind it. California uber Alles!

Gnuthulhu, Undead Warlock
Fthagn, Undead Warrior
Rhyleya, Troll Hunter
Thunderhorn,US
Remove your coat for email.

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by AlphaWoolf
Cool, I've had that record (well, CD now) for years but didn't know
there was a story behind it. California uber Alles!

Yeah ... the first time I heard the story behind the song was
actually on one of Jello's spoken word albums back in my youth. In
retrospect, I'm not so sure I should be learning my history from
Jello Biafra though :)

But yeah, that's the basis of the line "twinkies are the best friend
I ever had, I fought the law and I won".

[Zil]

Shay <***@aol.com> wrote:
... some interesting stuff about the derivation of "twink" ...

Post by Shay
Which leads into its current definition - someone who is equipping
their toon through outside means to achieve a competitive advantage.
Although it's now morphed to be less derogatory as it can include
people guilds have equipped to help starting players and things.

Nice work!

Words and langauge have always fascinated me, so I found your report
most interesting, thanks.

[Tamzen Cannoy]

Twink has been part of the social MU* language since about '91-'92 as I

recall, particularly Mucks and Mushes. Twink meant someone who

powerplayed and didn't learn the social rules before barging in and

insisting on getting their own way. Many of them were also 'rule

players' not role players, demanding that the rules trumped everything,

over telling a good story.

Tamzen

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Shay
"twink/ ...gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs
(compare mainstream "chick")."

The point I was making is that not all words that a group thinks they 'own'
in fact originated there. In point of fact I don't think it does - there
are plenty of references to the word that just imply an airhead that's
above their normal station in life because of a rich benefactor.

Post by Shay
Hence my confusion as to the origin of the patois - as it already
belonged to a distinct group. Ah well, guess it will remain a mystery.
Still think it was a practical joke on some gamer's part....

I find that extremely unlikely, and irrelevant anyway - words mean what
the users decide they mean, and it means nothing that some other group has
decided they mean something else to them. *

[Shay]

Post by pv+ (PV)
The point I was making is that not all words that a group thinks they 'own'
in fact originated there.

I agree. I just found it odd someone would create a patois in a group's
jargon when it already existed in another group's - as opposed to using
something unique. The term was already well established before 1976 in
pop literature. It was the second definition's emergence which baffled
me. Hence why I was asking - as I was curious Why it had been chosen
and established a second time in a second group. Nothing wrong with it.
I don't mean to imply words are off limit for reuse once enmeshed in a
group's jargon. It just struck me as odd and I was curious as to how it
happened.

It does make sense after researching though. It all comes back to the
Twinky Connection. :) To think a humble little snack cake could
infiltrate into the lexicon of disparate groups such as the gay
community and MMOs.... Hostess must be proud of the little golden
treats!

Post by pv+ (PV)

Post by Shay
Still think it was a practical joke on some gamer's part....

I find that extremely unlikely, and irrelevant anyway - words mean what
the users decide they mean, and it means nothing that some other group has
decided they mean something else to them.

That was a bit of a tongue in cheek assertion. My error. I didn't mean
that part to come across as a serious conclusion.

~Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrasza

[Ian Noble]

Post by Shay

Post by pv+ (PV)
The point I was making is that not all words that a group thinks they 'own'
in fact originated there.

I agree. I just found it odd someone would create a patois in a group's
jargon when it already existed in another group's - as opposed to using
something unique.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,'
it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

Mostly, words aren't "created" - they emerge. Sometimes more than
once.

Cheers - Ian

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Shay
I agree. I just found it odd someone would create a patois in a group's
jargon when it already existed in another group's - as opposed to using
something unique. The term was already well established before 1976 in

You see this a lot with musical genres, particularly subgenres. I think
pretty much every genre which has anything remoteloy to do with synths
or electronic equiment has an "electro" subgenre.

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Shay
It does make sense after researching though. It all comes back to the
Twinky Connection. :) To think a humble little snack cake could

Where did you find the connection to the Dan White incident, btw?

[Shay]

Post by j***@hexduxhmp.org
Where did you find the connection to the Dan White incident, btw?

I forget which site I picked it up from originally, though several
supported the theory it came from the twinkie defense. In one reference
I found today on notfrisco.com there's mention " ...Nevertheless,
'Twinkie Defense' entered the folk speech as a epithet for spurious
claims to mental illness. Among players of online computer games, it
was shortened to 'twink' and used to refer to those who got their
thrills by killing other virtual players."

Later it seems the word morphed to include rule bending, stat maxing
and flooding alts with money/equipment to pursue such interests - until
that action in itself became the primary definition today. If you dig
enough, there are other supporting sites on the net. But, of course,
the link can't be 100% certain as you start stepping into the
urban-myth/folklore zone. It is a fascination explanation though,
assuming it is true.

As an aside note - twink, in male, gay culture, isn't actually
derogatory in nature and is frequently used as a self-descriptor for a
care-free, smooth, young-looking male. On the whole, I haven't found
WoW to be gay-hostile at all - aside form the juvenile "that's gay",
"your gay", "fag" explicatives. But I tend to agree with Simon. I've
never thought of it as openly hostile so much as engrained in young
men's speech. However unfortunate, I have never thought of it as a
direct attack on a sub-culture, so much as an unfortunate choice of
terms. I've never felt any hostility from players personally. Though,
admittedly, being on the female side of the fence tends to make boys
just More friendly, if a bit too much, when they figure out you have a
girlfriend.

On a side note, I don't like the way the word has been broadened for
anyone exceedingly well equipped - though it really doesn't matter What
i think of it - words will do what they will. I found it more
appropriate for toons equipped through external forces (alts, friends,
etc.,.). I was a bit offended when someone accused me of such. I don't
do combat type grinding or instances that often, so level slowly. A
majority of my time is spent in the AH for my guild and farming. If I'm
gathering herbs in Winterspring, the last thing I want to do is have to
fight. It just slows down my gathering. As a by-product though, I've
amassed a good deal of equipment through a healthy income and good
bargain shopping on the AH. It feels like all that personal effort is
somehow cheapened when people just assume someone's dumping gold on me.

~ Shayylynn,
NE Hunter of Alexstrazsa

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Shay
enough, there are other supporting sites on the net. But, of course,
the link can't be 100% certain as you start stepping into the
urban-myth/folklore zone. It is a fascination explanation though,
assuming it is true.

Thanks, and yeah. I never ever would have thought that this might
be the case, but it is definitely pretty neat if true. As with most
slang words, the true origins are likely to be shrouded in a lot
of mystery.

Post by Shay
care-free, smooth, young-looking male. On the whole, I haven't found
WoW to be gay-hostile at all - aside form the juvenile "that's gay",
"your gay", "fag" explicatives. But I tend to agree with Simon. I've
never thought of it as openly hostile so much as engrained in young
men's speech. However unfortunate, I have never thought of it as a
direct attack on a sub-culture, so much as an unfortunate choice of
terms. I've never felt any hostility from players personally. Though,

I'd agree w/ this. I'll even go so far as to admit that on occassion
I'll catch myself still saying that sort of thing (and notice when I
do immediately) - and it has been many years since I realized it wasn't
really a cool thing to do. I do think though that (as you say, however
unfortunate) it has started that slide towards genericization (again,
is that even a word?, oh well) that leads to such things as "getting
gypped/jipped", "welshing on a bet", "indian giver", etc etc ...
although it'll probably never reach that point (as I'd presume is the
case with most such words)

Post by Shay
admittedly, being on the female side of the fence tends to make boys
just More friendly, if a bit too much, when they figure out you have a
girlfriend.

Heh. The age old reality ... if a guy figures out that a woman likes
other women he immediately seems to assume that they want to include him
in a FFM 3-way, even if neither women are interested at all in men
(or even if they are - him in particular).

Speaking of, it has always struck me as odd when guys talk about how
they "love lesbians", when they actually are talking about how they'd like
to get it on w/ "2 chicks at the same time" (to quote Office Space)
when they'd probably have better luck looking further up into the bi end
of the spectrum. :)

Post by Shay
etc.,.). I was a bit offended when someone accused me of such. I don't
do combat type grinding or instances that often, so level slowly. A

The one time someone claimed that about one of my chars I was both
offended (as you were, for similar reasons) and yet also a little
proud that they'd think that ... as in, you managed to do something
that most can't/won't. Still, given how it is generally used as
an excuse as to why someone died in a fight (damned twinks!), I'd
prefer to avoid the label :)

[Catriona R]

Post by Shay
On a side note, I don't like the way the word has been broadened for
anyone exceedingly well equipped - though it really doesn't matter What
i think of it - words will do what they will. I found it more
appropriate for toons equipped through external forces (alts, friends,
etc.,.). I was a bit offended when someone accused me of such. I don't
do combat type grinding or instances that often, so level slowly. A
majority of my time is spent in the AH for my guild and farming. If I'm
gathering herbs in Winterspring, the last thing I want to do is have to
fight. It just slows down my gathering. As a by-product though, I've
amassed a good deal of equipment through a healthy income and good
bargain shopping on the AH. It feels like all that personal effort is
somehow cheapened when people just assume someone's dumping gold on me.

Agreed, I'm actually quite surprised no-one's said my priest looks like a
twink yet, as I'm in almost all blue gear and have been since my late 30s.
And almost entirely through that character's own work; a lvl 60 friend ran
me through a few low-level instances (although I did several runs in normal
groups) but from SM up I haven't had help from him. And my main is on the
other side so obviously can't provide much - a nice staff and boots dropped
for my main and both have been transferred across, but then my priest
bought a ring for my main on the Horde AH so it evens out, and it is only
the two items, which I could well afford to buy anyway, got over 300g,
entirely earned through gathering professions and drops. Ok, the epic bow
that dropped in my mid-40s and sold for 120g helped a little ;-)

But yeah, I'm pretty pleased with what I've got so would be a bit miffed to
have it thought of as twinkage... although in a way it's a compliment, if
you look *that* well-geared I guess.

[nonone]

A level 60 ran you thru SM to help you get gear.. grin You are a twink! :)
--

Post by Catriona R

Post by Shay
On a side note, I don't like the way the word has been broadened for
anyone exceedingly well equipped - though it really doesn't matter What
i think of it - words will do what they will. I found it more
appropriate for toons equipped through external forces (alts, friends,
etc.,.). I was a bit offended when someone accused me of such. I don't
do combat type grinding or instances that often, so level slowly. A
majority of my time is spent in the AH for my guild and farming. If I'm
gathering herbs in Winterspring, the last thing I want to do is have to
fight. It just slows down my gathering. As a by-product though, I've
amassed a good deal of equipment through a healthy income and good
bargain shopping on the AH. It feels like all that personal effort is
somehow cheapened when people just assume someone's dumping gold on me.

Agreed, I'm actually quite surprised no-one's said my priest looks like a
twink yet, as I'm in almost all blue gear and have been since my late 30s.
And almost entirely through that character's own work; a lvl 60 friend ran
me through a few low-level instances (although I did several runs in normal
groups) but from SM up I haven't had help from him. And my main is on the
other side so obviously can't provide much - a nice staff and boots dropped
for my main and both have been transferred across, but then my priest
bought a ring for my main on the Horde AH so it evens out, and it is only
the two items, which I could well afford to buy anyway, got over 300g,
entirely earned through gathering professions and drops. Ok, the epic bow
that dropped in my mid-40s and sold for 120g helped a little ;-)
But yeah, I'm pretty pleased with what I've got so would be a bit miffed to
have it thought of as twinkage... although in a way it's a compliment, if
you look *that* well-geared I guess.
--
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 60)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 54)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 43)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 33)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 25)

[Catriona R]

Post by nonone
A level 60 ran you thru SM to help you get gear.. grin You are a twink! :)

Nope, not SM, it was from then on that I only did same-level groups :-P RFK
was the last instance I had a run through from a 60 and needless to say
none of the stuff I got there has lasted into my 50s ;-)

[nonone]

Go on admit it... You had a higher level toon take you thru an instance you
could not do yourself and then USED the drops.. either to sell to buy better
gear or actually wear what dropped .. YOU ARE A TWINK.... :)
--

Post by Catriona R

Post by nonone
A level 60 ran you thru SM to help you get gear.. grin You are a twink! :)

Nope, not SM, it was from then on that I only did same-level groups :-P RFK
was the last instance I had a run through from a 60 and needless to say
none of the stuff I got there has lasted into my 50s ;-)
--
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 60)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 54)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 43)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 33)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 25)

[Shay]

Post by nonone
Go on admit it... You had a higher level toon take you thru an instance you
could not do yourself and then USED the drops.. either to sell to buy better
gear or actually wear what dropped .. YOU ARE A TWINK.... :)

evil baiting... :)

It does bring up a question though. Would people consider guild help
from higher up members such? We've always rather prided ourselves on
the extent of help we offer guild members. If we get drops lower lvls
can use, we mail them out instead of use them (I rarely sell an item
without first looking over our roster to see if anyone could use
something I found), enchant whenever we get a chance (at cost of free
if we can afford it) and woe to the mobs that get them stuck to the
point they're continually getting wiped. Everyone will drop everything
if a member sends out an emergency request on guild channel for
assistance to get through some quest. Those helped are expected to put
lower lvl members first in return. Backups just a shout away. I've
never really thought of it as "twinking" though, just the advantage of
being in a good guild. I'm a founder and it is the first guild I've
ever been in, it was made shortly after I started playing. But when we
made it, I thought it was the entire point of having a guild really. Or
did we go overboard?

But we don't alleviate people's need to earn for themselves. Drops are
handed out first to active members. Guild chat is very busy, so we can
see who the people are that go out of their way to assist members and
reward them first. And you don't call in "airstrikes" gratuitously. If
I'm called, I expect a guildy to point at what is giving them a hard
time, I shoot it, mount up and am on my way. I won't spend the day
questing For someone else in lieue of them doing the work. And, they're
expected to do the same in return for other members. So it makes a nice
network of people where you can normally get someone ~5 lvls over you
to come and help if you're in a bind. And as for drops, we don't run
around decorating the 19th lvls in blues. Just send them lvl
appropriate items we think will help them along their way.

~Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrasza

[pv+ (PV)]

Post by Shay
It does bring up a question though. Would people consider guild help
from higher up members such? We've always rather prided ourselves on

"Run me through" is crap. If anyone, guildmate or otherwise, asks me to do
that, I tell them to get lost. Leveling is how you learn to play your
character.

Post by Shay
the extent of help we offer guild members. If we get drops lower lvls
can use, we mail them out instead of use them (I rarely sell an item
without first looking over our roster to see if anyone could use
something I found), enchant whenever we get a chance (at cost of free

That's perfectly fine - there's no reason not to share out green gear if
the lower levels can use it. In my old guild we had a lot of lower-levels,
and I made a point if I was soloing an instance to shower a few good greens
on them - it made them happy and didn't cost me much.

Post by Shay
if we can afford it) and woe to the mobs that get them stuck to the
point they're continually getting wiped. Everyone will drop everything
if a member sends out an emergency request on guild channel for
assistance to get through some quest. Those helped are expected to put

Usually, someone in that situation is attempting a quest they shouldn't
yet. It's not like if a gank squad is griefing them! Quests are colored as
they are for a reason. *

[Marypop]

"PV" ...

Post by pv+ (PV)

Post by Shay
It does bring up a question though. Would people consider guild help
from higher up members such? We've always rather prided ourselves on

"Run me through" is crap. If anyone, guildmate or otherwise, asks me to do
that, I tell them to get lost. Leveling is how you learn to play your
character.

yes but ...

I did it a few times anyway, I usually proposed it myself in fact.
You just need good reasons !

For exemple, bringing someone in DeadMines, with TS, to show the guildie
his/her first instance, and explaining stuff is OK. (I did it with a level
28 guildie who had never been to an instance !)

Rushing the same DM, for a level 15 alt of one of your HL guildies is crap.

My 30cts.

[Shay]

Post by Marypop
For exemple, bringing someone in DeadMines, with TS, to show the guildie
his/her first instance, and explaining stuff is OK. (I did it with a level
28 guildie who had never been to an instance !)

Oh, very good point! Yes. We normally use deadmines as a training
grounds for newer players. To teach etiquette on need/greed. Group
tactics. Specifically, I like to take new hunters out there to teach
them how to aggro manage, kite, work multiple targets between
themselves and pets and protect the clothies as we're warrior light in
the guild. And it gives them a chance to pick up some nice greens for
their level.

~ Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrazsa

[Catriona R]

Post by pv+ (PV)

Post by Shay
It does bring up a question though. Would people consider guild help
from higher up members such? We've always rather prided ourselves on

"Run me through" is crap. If anyone, guildmate or otherwise, asks me to do
that, I tell them to get lost. Leveling is how you learn to play your
character.

In some situation yeah but for the lowest instances you don't learn a lot
about your character anyway (I'm thinking RFC here, no-one's got enough
skills to learn a lot) And how about a situation I was in the other day?
Paladin quest, requires getting stuff from Deadmines, BFD and SFK. Now I'm
Alliance and no-one does SFK and not many do BFD. Of course I got a group
and ran Deadmines (twice in fact as I'd done it once before I got the pally
quest) but if was going to be too much hassle to find groups for the other
two so a lvl 60 guildmate took me. Pretty fair I think, as I *have* done
Deadmines twice and learned some about how to play my character in groups.

Post by pv+ (PV)

Post by Shay
if we can afford it) and woe to the mobs that get them stuck to the
point they're continually getting wiped. Everyone will drop everything
if a member sends out an emergency request on guild channel for
assistance to get through some quest. Those helped are expected to put

Usually, someone in that situation is attempting a quest they shouldn't
yet. It's not like if a gank squad is griefing them! Quests are colored as
they are for a reason.

Would have to agree there though, except for elite quests, not everyone
likes shouting in LFG for ages in the hope of fiding a group; I end up
skipping any quests I can't solo by the time they turn green. But I hate
people asking for help when they're way too low level (I've been asked to
help people who are 6 lvls below the mobs ffs), I end up just telling them
to level up. Frankly with most quests if you can't solo them you're too low
level, plain and simple.

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by Shay
It does bring up a question though. Would people consider guild help
from higher up members such? We've always rather prided ourselves on
the extent of help we offer guild members. If we get drops lower lvls

Yes, but it isn't necessarily *bad* twinking IMO. Even someone such
as myself who really dispises twinking sees that the whole thing
is all shades of grey. In my previous MMO I 'twinked' in that manner
all sorts of folks in my guild in the earlier days (when most players
were n00bs), so I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise :)

Post by Shay
ever been in, it was made shortly after I started playing. But when we
made it, I thought it was the entire point of having a guild really. Or
did we go overboard?

Not at all, IMO.

For me, one main catch is having to answer the "why on earth would
character X do this for character Y" without resorting to very cheesy
and obviously rationalizing RP excuses. If one is in a guild, that
helps answer the question right there.

[JohnR]

Post by Shay

Post by pv+ (PV)
Here's a clue you might have missed - not all words mean only what you
think they do.

Um... That's rather what the post was about - the etymology of the
alternate meaning. So not missed, but thank you. I was just wondering
how or why someone chose to use a word with a standard and slang
meaning already

I'm not so sure that's the case, sounds more like your assumption to me.
Unless you move in those circles it's a completely unknown meaning. Then
again the amount of gay bashing in the game suggests it may have some
credence.

[Simon Nejmann]

Post by JohnR
I'm not so sure that's the case, sounds more like your assumption to me.
Unless you move in those circles it's a completely unknown meaning. Then
again the amount of gay bashing in the game suggests it may have some
credence.

I doubt that many gay-bashers know enough about homosexual terms and
culture to know that they even use words like "twink", so I really
don't think that it went in that way.

Secondly, I don't think that all those guys calling this and that
"gay" (or "ghey") are consciously bashing homosexuals anymore than
people yelling "god damn!" are trying to be blasphemous. It is more of
the fasion expression or swear word of today, without any real care
for what the deeper meaning really is.

[j***@hexduxhmp.org]

Post by pv+ (PV)
Still, sometimes it's fun. I wear [Kezan's Taint] on my warlock, and in
volatile moments I threaten to show people my taint if they don't shut up. *

Hah!

[Neo]

Post by Shay
Okay, I just Have to know... before I die of lack of oxygen from
giggling. What realm full of midwestern farm boys was tricked by a
crafty gay activist group into using the term 'twink' for alts they've
given gold to to trick out with really nice gear. I had a scruffy,
chiseled faced warrior last night announce to me "I'm a twink". What am
I supposed to say to that?! I could barely breath from laughing. "Gee,
you seemed more bearish to me Hon...."
And to whoever taught them that... Tsk, tsk... truly evil. Don't pick
on Opie dear, it's not sporting :)
~Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrasza

LoL I have actually banned the usage of this word in my guild. You are
not Twinked, you are Tweaked. LoL

As for the definition and origin, I have no idea how it came about, but
the whole "Twinky Defense" didn't coin the word "Twink" per se, just a
description of when someone is acting "Twinkie". I have adult themed
books back from 1972 and earlier where they use the word Twink to refer
to a young (or boyish looking) young male with no body hair and very
little intellegence, usually blonde. Like a Twinky, they are young,
dumb, and full of c**. And since the snack cake dates back to 1933, I
take the reference to gay people more than I would to a MMORPG. LoL

I know what you mean though. The first time I saw someone yell out he
was a Twink, or saw the guild Twink Army, I had to go for a walk and
get away. I was laughing so hard I would've wet myself. LoL